New Hardware Update: Is This The ONE?

[Wayne Orwig]

Streets show up on the Maps program now.
EDIT: I enabled Hyper-V, and use Edge for online editing. That used to cause display crashing. It now works well, and it feels faster.
Two finger zoom on the touchpad appears to work a bit better.
Now if sleep doesn't kill the battery, my only issue is that I have filled up the hard disk.

EDIT: Enabling Hyper-V and using Edge still has display driver issues.

 

[ncameron]

The Surface Book uses a S0iX enabled SoC, which is fundamentally different from traditional laptops at the engineering level. Connected Standby is the default "Sleep" which is not technically a sleep state but Powered On low power state....

The Surface Team has enabled Hibernate for further battery savings (default is 120 minutes of Connected Standby)

I hear what you say. But user expectation management is very bad in this respect. I certainly don't want my SB to be wasting battery power when I want it to be asleep conserving battery power, by retrieving emails! And I have never met anyone who does. I want DEEP sleep, but fast awakening - faster than Hibernation. I know you can now turn Connected Stand off in Power Options - but I'd love to know that the SB is using the deepest sleep possible otherwise - and I have no such confidence. Due to the abysmal communication from MS...

 

[jnjroach]

I hear what you say. But user expectation management is very bad in this respect. I certainly don't want my SB to be wasting battery power when I want it to be asleep conserving battery power, by retrieving emails! And I have never met anyone who does. I want DEEP sleep, but fast awakening - faster than Hibernation. I know you can now turn Connected Stand off in Power Options - but I'd love to know that the SB is using the deepest sleep possible otherwise - and I have no such confidence. Due to the abysmal communication from MS...

You are asking for something the device isn't designed to do, S3 is not an option....S0iX or S4 or the default Combo....

 

[Seneleron]

You are asking for something the device isn't designed to do

Not to attempt to hijack the conversation, but:

I guess I just don't understand exactly what connected standby is doing. . . is it a "low power" always on version of sleep where it continually polls for data then? Does connected standby turn off when the system goes into hibernation?

I guess I just don't fully understand why they wouldn't design it vaguely similar to OS X, where the machine goes into sleep/hybrid and polls at certain intervals [10 min, 1 hour, w/e] to update.

I get that connected standby is more. . tablet-centric, but at the end of the day I'm not getting a tablet like experience. If I disable hibernate I lose almost 50% battery in about 9 hours. If I leave hibernate ON my alarm doesn't go off in the morning until I actually WAKE UP the machine. [sometimes the cat knocks the plug out of it in the middle of the night, ok?]

 

[Yillbs]

Not to attempt to hijack the conversation, but:

I guess I just don't understand exactly what connected standby is doing. . . is it a "low power" always on version of sleep where it continually polls for data then? Does connected standby turn off when the system goes into hibernation?

I guess I just don't fully understand why they wouldn't design it vaguely similar to OS X, where the machine goes into sleep/hybrid and polls at certain intervals [10 min, 1 hour, w/e] to update.

I get that connected standby is more. . tablet-centric, but at the end of the day I'm not getting a tablet like experience. If I disable hibernate I lose almost 50% battery in about 9 hours. If I leave hibernate ON my alarm doesn't go off in the morning until I actually WAKE UP the machine. [sometimes the cat knocks the plug out of it in the middle of the night, ok?]

My cat hates plugs too However, what you're wanting does exist. It's called a phone
But in all seriousness, I don't think we can really expect the device to act like a full fledged tablet no? The purpose of the sleep / phone type sleep is so it CAN poll in the background. However, with a tablet / hybrid the SP is, it would have to be connected to wifi, which is not really the idea behind being away from your home. If you're at home where you have wifi, then you would be ON the device to connect, or using it, and you likely already have a desktop around, or your phone doing that for you. If you're in the car, why would you want this thing pulling information from the web, it can't... it has no traditional wireless capabilities that an LTE / Ipad / Phone has. Granted, my logic is likely flawed here, and probably just more of an opinion, but it begs the question, why, why would you want it pulling information ever if the screen isn't on. I can't imagine many people relying on this device ( no offense to you ), to wake them up in the morning.

 

[jnjroach]

Not to attempt to hijack the conversation, but:

I guess I just don't understand exactly what connected standby is doing. . . is it a "low power" always on version of sleep where it continually polls for data then? Does connected standby turn off when the system goes into hibernation?

I guess I just don't fully understand why they wouldn't design it vaguely similar to OS X, where the machine goes into sleep/hybrid and polls at certain intervals [10 min, 1 hour, w/e] to update.

I get that connected standby is more. . tablet-centric, but at the end of the day I'm not getting a tablet like experience. If I disable hibernate I lose almost 50% battery in about 9 hours. If I leave hibernate ON my alarm doesn't go off in the morning until I actually WAKE UP the machine. [sometimes the cat knocks the plug out of it in the middle of the night, ok?]

Windows 8.x and later have enabled a Power State that is like Smartphone (Android, iOS or Windows Phone, etc.) or ARM Tablet, i.e. - The are in a Powered On State but in Standby meaning that even though the screen is off you still receive phone calls, text messages and emails on your phone and tablet.

In Windows that is called Connected Standby, in which certain classes of Modern Apps can still function while in that state, these include Xbox/Groove Music, the Skype or Skype for Business App, Windows 8.x or 10 Mail. Any of the WinRT Apps (AKA - Windows Universal Apps) that conform to the Connected Standby Power Management API can function within those parameters. They are not always on but can initiate push/pull in set intervals.

When the Surface Device enters into Hibernation anything in RAM is written to disk the system essentially shuts down.

Normal Windows Applications (AKA - Win32 Applications) can not function as above.

Windows 10 is not OSX as OSX is not a Mobile enabled OS (yes there is a mobile form factor). Windows 10 adapts to the hardware, if one wants a traditional experience one can purchase any of the plethora of legacy form factors of traditional laptops and desktops and Windows 10 will operate just like Windows 7.

 

[Seneleron]

I don't think we can really expect the device to act like a full fledged tablet no?

When Microsoft throws around slogans like "the tablet that can replace your laptop" . . . yea. For better or for worse, the iPad IS the benchmark for tablet functionality, and the SB is essentially an SP4 attached to a really nice keyboard.

At the end of the day I agree wholeheartedly with your assessment: The right tool for the job is my phone [or a separate tablet] when I need to set an alarm. I'm fully aware I'm being overly hard on the Surface hardware, but there's no reason that the sleep states can't be significantly improved upon from where they are now.

It's a first world problem, I'm never far from an outlet, and I don't typically use my device like that ANYWAY. . but it still bugs me that if I HAD to, I COULDN'T.


JNJ:

Awesome answer, pretty much confirms my understanding of connected standby. It also explains somewhat the power drain I experienced last night/this morning.

I'm going to chalk this one up as an engineering dispute. Legacy vs connected standby is really a non-issue on this, it's a simple question of what saves more power. Going into a deeper sleep state and periodically waking up to burst check for packet data VS trying to develop a lower power continuously on hybrid sleep state.

I'm also not a hardware engineer, so for all I know there's a very obvious reason of which I am unaware, and I'm not trying to pit one O/S against another.. [I use both, they both have their uses] I'm just asking the questions to increase my overall understanding of the strengths and weaknesses of my device so that I can more fully utilize it to it's fullest potential.

 

[ncameron]

You are asking for something the device isn't designed to do, S3 is not an option....S0iX or S4 or the default Combo....

My Availablesleepstates shows
- Hibernate
- FAst Startup
- Standby (S0 Low Power Idle)

With a long lost of unavailable states - S1 - S3. Does this last one (S0 Low Power Idle) equate to your S0iX?

 

[jnjroach]

My Availablesleepstates shows
- Hibernate
- FAst Startup
- Standby (S0 Low Power Idle)

With a long lost of unavailable states - S1 - S3. Does this last one (S0 Low Power Idle) equate to your S0iX?

You mean?

The following sleep states are available on this system:
Standby (S0 Low Power Idle) Network Connected - This is S0iX
Hibernate - This is S4
Fast Startup - This is S0 (from S5 - Powered Off)

The following sleep states are not available on this system:
Standby (S1) - Legacy from APM BIOS (from the 90s)
The system firmware does not support this standby state.
This standby state is disabled when S0 low power idle is supported.

Standby (S2) - Legacy from early ACPI BIOS (from the late 90s to the early 2000s)
The system firmware does not support this standby state.
This standby state is disabled when S0 low power idle is supported.

Standby (S3) - Updated ACPI BIOS (from the early to mid-2000s)
The system firmware does not support this standby state.
This standby state is disabled when S0 low power idle is supported.

Hybrid Sleep - Updated ACPI BIOS also ported to UEFI Systems (introduced support under Windows Vista)
Standby (S3) is not available.

 

[ncameron]

Got it! Thanks.

 

[Seneleron]

Sleep state aside, I'm very surprised at how much more responsive she is since the update. It's funny how you don't realize that something's not working up to snuff until the updates that correct them are released. Much faster waking up from sleep and seamless disconnects/reconnects so far 100% of the time. Not that I had many issues BEFORE, but compared to now. . WOW!

 

[ctballos]

My SB was working pretty well until this latest update. Now my infrared camera just barely turns on with a dim light and doesn't see me and I've lost my rotation lock toggle as it just stays off. And of course the Airplane toggle is always on even though it's off. I figure like my SP3 there'll get it right just before they release the SB2. But for all its quirks I still love it.