Surface Pro 4 news

[hughlle]

Saw that. Can get way more for my SP3 on eBay or elsewhere when the time comes. Have kept mine in immaculate, flawless condition.

Yeah, on the 128gb i5 it looks to be about 300 dollars less than ebay would fetch. Hardly sensible.

I do find it interesting though that one of the conditions for the trade-in being deemed as "working" is no dead pixels, as if that is somehow user related, like say a scratch or broken screen.

 

[ptrkhh]

I wish it had Nvidia GPU, like teh GPU of the Tegra X1 chip, stand alone. Would need no additional cooling and deliver similar or better performance, but you get FAR better drivers, full and proper OpenGL, DirectX support, but also proper and full: OpenCL, and DirectCompute (and of course Nvidia's very own CUDA))

How could they achieve that without no additional cooling? I know that X1 chip is a fanless chip, but it still needs cooling, passive cooling. I wish they could do that though.

-> Auto focus on the back or front camera, not both.

Why not both? We pay a thousand dollars for this, they better be able to put TWO $29 Lumia 520's AF camera, at the very least.

-> Same single USB 3.0. USB 3.1 is possible depending on when the engineering of the system board of the device was done. Probably still be 3.0. If it has USB 3.1, then USB Type C would be added as a second USB port.

Disagree, Type-C is super important for port-constrained hybrid devices like the SP3. Microsoft, as the biggest hybrid computer proponent, should endorse this and set this as the standard as soon as possible. The benefit for hybrid devices is immense. First of all, Type-C is smaller and thinner. It allows thinner, sleeker design without compromising flexibility. But more importantly, it is more capable. USB 3.1 allows power delivery of up to 100W and transporting DisplayPort signal. Instead of having 3 different ports, we could just simply have three USB 3.1 ports on the Surface Pro for everything. I mean, when did the last time you use all three ports at the same time?

And they don’t even need to increase the board size

 

[hughlle]

How could they achieve that without no additional cooling? I know that X1 chip is a fanless chip, but it still needs cooling, passive cooling. I wish they could do that though.


Why not both? We pay a thousand dollars for this, they better be able to put TWO $29 Lumia 520's AF camera, at the very least.



Disagree, Type-C is super important for port-constrained hybrid devices like the SP3. Microsoft, as the biggest hybrid computer proponent, should endorse this and set this as the standard as soon as possible. The benefit for hybrid devices is immense. First of all, Type-C is smaller and thinner. It allows thinner, sleeker design without compromising flexibility. But more importantly, it is more capable. USB 3.1 allows power delivery of up to 100W and transporting DisplayPort signal. Instead of having 3 different ports, we could just simply have three USB 3.1 ports on the Surface Pro for everything. I mean, when did the last time you use all three ports at the same time?

And they don’t even need to increase the board size

It sounds to me like he is saying they need to keep the usb 3 port, and if they can, also have a type c port. At this point in time it would be suicide only to include type c. I would NEVER buy the sp4 if it was only type c.

 

[ptrkhh]

It sounds to me like he is saying they need to keep the usb 3 port, and if they can, also have a type c port. At this point in time it would be suicide only to include type c. I would NEVER buy the sp4 if it was only type c.

Why suicide?
USB 3.1 is able to do everything the USB3 does, plus 100W power delivery, and DP capability, all on a smaller footprint. I think its a no-brainer for a device like the SP3. We could easily have 3 USB ports and 3 DP ports. Just not at the same time.

I do realize that we need to use an adapter for existing devices, but I think that's the price to pay if you want to step into the future. With MS pushing USB3.1 in the industry, it will force other manufacturers to make 3.1-compatible products. In less than a year after the release of the SP4, we would be free from USB adapters, but only if MS pushed the industry in the first place. btw, isnt that what the Surface is for? To push the PC industry, not just another PC business.

One more thing, imagine what the media will say when the SP4 shipped with the older USB3 port, and the MacBook shipped with the newer standard.

 

[hughlle]

Why suicide?
USB 3.1 is able to do everything the USB3 does, plus 100W power delivery, and DP capability, all on a smaller footprint. I think its a no-brainer for a device like the SP3. We could easily have 3 USB ports and 3 DP ports. Just not at the same time.

I do realize that we need to use an adapter for existing devices, but I think that's the price to pay if you want to step into the future. With MS pushing USB3.1 in the industry, it will force other manufacturers to make 3.1-compatible products. In less than a year after the release of the SP4, we would be free from USB adapters, but only if MS pushed the industry in the first place. btw, isnt that what the Surface is for? To push the PC industry, not just another PC business.

One more thing, imagine what the media will say when the SP4 shipped with the older USB3 port, and the MacBook shipped with the newer standard.

Because few people are going to be willing to upgrade all of their devices or carry around adaptors. New technology that creates issues for older technology has to be brought into the equation gradually. Look at all the legacy ports still around. DP is arguably far superior to DVI, yet all graphics cards still have DVI ports because ofthe backlash if people were just expected to replace all the cables they'd already bought to be able to use their graphics card.

Why does a step into the future have to be immediate? Why can't the device have both standard port and type c?

Just look at apple, a company that could release anything and see it sell by the millions. They caught a hell of a lot of grief upon moving to the lightening connector. They sold their products as expected, it's apple, but they also pissed off a hell of a lot of people. MS do not have the luxury of being able to piss off their customers, right now they need to do everything they can to build on the success of the sp3 and build a solid user base. Making traditional usb devices a pain to use will not be beneficial in any way.

I am all for a type c connector on the sp3, but not if it is at the cost of the regular usb port. I can't see any valid argument as to why they would completely omit the usb 3 port. This isn't a question of either or. It is not that hard to just include both.

I love my sp3 to bits, bu if it came with a new port that did not work natively with my devices, i'd have just bought something else. This is a device that is aiming to create a new user base, not just draw in repeat customers. The new customers experience has to be as seamless as possible, and having to buy adaptors or new cables will go down as a huge red mark against the surface.

Why do you think ms have promised not to change the form factor of the device?

Customer: Will i be able to use my external harddrive with this?
Salesman: Yes, but it'll cost you an additional £10

That's not going to go down very well

 

[olimjj]

I am not sure that the purchase of an adapter @ £10, for a product of this initial cost bracket would be a sufficient deterent . If Microsoft felt it would be, they could include it. You could still then use your legacy hub when you needed to connect more than one device.

 

[GoodBytes]

Well. Type C USB 3.1 allows video output (it can incorporate DisplayPort in itself, kinda the same way DisplayPort is backward compatible to HDMI or single link DVI. So the plug can serve as a USB port or display out.

Sure it is not perfect, but it is something.

 

[hughlle]

I am not sure that the purchase of an adapter @ £10, for a product of this initial cost bracket would be a sufficient deterent . If Microsoft felt it would be, they could include it. You could still then use your legacy hub when you needed to connect more than one device.

It is the cost and inconvenience. For me at least. If I was in the market for the sp4 and it didn't have a normal USB port I wouldn't buy it. I couldn't care less what the benefits of type c are if it means an inconvenience for every USB device I own. No different to my example of dvi. Its only a few dollars for an HDMI to dvi or dp to dvi cable but they keep they still keep adding a dvi port to graphics cards.

Surface does not have the market prominence to start inconveniencing users

Scenario. You're out with your surface and go into a meeting. Someone gives you a USB stick with some spreadsheets or whatever on it, you don't have an adapter at hand. Your surface is now useless in this instance. Standards exist for a reason.

I'm not sure why you're all so against the concept of having both. Why do you feel it should be type c only?

 

[olimjj]

I am not opposed to having both; but excluding that possibility for whatever reason (cost, engineering, design limitations etc.), I would prefer the newer technology, and of course the capacity to always be prepared.

 

[olimjj]

Of course he could possibly e-mail those important spreadsheets to me if I and he forgot the adapter

 

[ptrkhh]

Look at all the legacy ports still around. DP is arguably far superior to DVI, yet all graphics cards still have DVI ports because of the backlash if people were just expected to replace all the cables they'd already bought to be able to use their graphics card.
Why does a step into the future have to be immediate? Why can't the device have both standard port and type c?

Simply because theres plenty of space in a GPU. That’s simply not the case with a hybrid like the Surface. Surface doesn’t have the luxury. Remember, they couldn’t even fit a fullsize SD card slot for this very reason. They weren’t able to fit a second USB port either. Otherwise, Surface would as well have DVI port.

It is not that hard to just include both.

How do you know? One thing for sure is: no tablet on the market today has more than 1 USB port.

Scenario. You're out with your surface and go into a meeting. Someone gives you a USB stick with some spreadsheets or whatever on it, you don't have an adapter at hand. Your surface is now useless in this instance. Standards exist for a reason.

And as well with HDMI displays, or –it actually happened to me— a VGA-only projector. What would you do?

You shouldve prepared.

They need to achieve the battery life, thinness, and lightness that the market expect. They couldn’t do it without omitting legacy ports. Otherwise the Surface would still have a DVI port.

And remember, the faster Surface goes away from Type-A, the faster everybody else will. If the Surface Pro and MacBook Air only had Type-C this year, it would surely pressure peripherals manufacturers to quickly adapt and sell Type-C-compatible products. However, if they still put Type-A, those manufacturers would slouch and keep selling old products. And people would keep buying them: Its more familiar, its compatible with their 5-year old PC. Why should I get a Type-C hard drive?

In the end, what are we going to get?

No market penetration at all. Look at Thunderbolt and how it ended up.

 

[hughlle]

Then let apple go the type c only route. They have the customer loyalty that allows them to annoy their customers. Microsoft does not. Microsoft are in a position where they cannot afford a cock up, they have just started to gain traction with the surface.

I honestly cannot understand your position. You don't see motherboards only using type c. Legacy exists for a reason, because people still have use for it. There is no case where USB type c will not be adopted. We all somehow managed to migrate to USB keyboards and dvi monitors without having to remove legacy ports, heck, I bought a new TV and it still has scart. By your argument noone buys blu ray and noone sells it because DVDs are still produced. Right?

Youseem to be focus in on supply and ignoring demamd. Who cares if type c mice and hard drives exist if people already have these things and are perfectly happy with them.

We are only recently seeing serial ports vanish, I just bought a motherboard for an i5 system and it still has them, yet there are a million and 1 USB mice out there. If type c offers a big enough benefit, which it does, then it will be adopted and succeed regardless of whether there are still traditional USB ports. But like with every change of standard, it will be implemented alongside the old standard.