Deterrent to buy the SP3?

[GoodBytes]

Yeah there is a Currys but they suck!

I am asking you to buy it there, I am saying you should have a stand where you can physically view it, and maybe hold it somewhat (probably will have some lock system)
I don't like in the U.K, but I am sure that in the U.K you have other electronic stores.

 

[kristalsoldier]

I am asking you to buy it there, I am saying you should have a stand where you can physically view it, and maybe hold it somewhat (probably will have some lock system)
I don't like in the U.K, but I am sure that in the U.K you have other electronic stores.

Yeah...well, small as the UK is, it is rather difficult for one person to flit around the entire UK looking for stores to physically inspect the device. Anyways, this is a moot point - I will be in Canada in a couple of weeks and will get a chance to be at a MS store (I have ascertained that there is indeed a store when I am going to be) when I will not only physically view it, but also - if available - probably buy it.

 

[MDS]

The only deterrent I considered before pre-ordering was the Broadwell chip release date mainly because of potential battery life improvement. That said, the larger screen on the Surface Pro 3 was the overall selling point as to why I ordered it. I've never been one to wait for the next best thing. Personally I think windows 8 is as major a shift in operating systems as was windows 95. Microsoft has renewed my interest in their products. For the first time since the 80's I'm actually thinking about buying a product, that being the Surface, with each new release until fully satisfied. That might cost me $300 each time I buy because the Surface resale is good, right now, if you ditch the past model for the new.

 

[kristalsoldier]

A few more updates on that Broadwell issue: Computex 2014: More details on Intel?s Broadwell | ZDNet

So, if I am understanding this correctly, it appears that Intel is expecting to share more details about this in September and a possible appearance of the chip in some products around Christmas. In effect, Broadwell - if things go correctly with Intel's efforts - will become mainstream by the middle of Q1 2015 or most certainly by Q2 2015.

Another interesting point I noted in the above linked article regarding improved battery efficiency. Intel is comparing efficiency to other Intel chips and not to ARM chips, which does make a difference. Of course, quite a bit depends on OS optimization. While the performance of Broadwell is expected to be anywhere between 20-40% better than the current generation of Haswell chips, I am not sure the battery performance will see such a marked improvement. By this I mean that it will not be in the league of ARM chips, which is probably what is necessary for the holy grail of "all day performance".

Net effect? SP3...here I come!

 

[Atomic Walrus]

Take a look at this: Integrated, Smart Connected Devices Fuel Next Era of Computing




While this was always on the cards, can or should this be a deterrent to those (like me!) who are seriously and actively considering buying the SP3? How do folks who have already bought (booked) their SP3 feel about this?

Fanless is a huge negative to me. No matter what CPU is involved, a fanless design means trading significant processing power for, what, slightly less of a humming noise? I'm not even sure what the draw there is. People seem to have this idea that you could make a chip power efficient enough that it wouldn't be a trade, but even the ARM chips in iPads could run faster with a more significant cooling solution. What I'd like to see is an i7 Broadwell chip with a fan. Theoretically (if you believe Intel) that system could hit significantly higher performance points at the same thermal output and power consumption.

Basically for me it's important that the SP remain "pro," by which I mean it not sacrifice performance in order to lure in the iPad crowd. Considering the existence of an i7 model this year I have to assume MS feels the same way right now. Weight is a different issue, and I appreciate continued efforts to reduce weight, but again I'd rather not make significant performance compromises to get there. Those people who say computers have gotten "fast enough" are insane, I'll never understand them.

After saying all that I'll add something different: If I were involved in designing the future Surface lineup I might continue to produce the SP with i5/i7 chips and then reintroduce the "Surface" (non-pro) line as something like that reference design: A light, thin, fanless system that, while significantly slower than the SP, can still run legacy software.

 

[GoodBytes]

I think it comes from people buying shitty laptops or desktops, with horrible cooling engineering apply to them (to make the system as cheap as possible), and uses crappy fans which are loud and barely pushes any air.
Quiet system, means that fans cost more and requires smart cooling engineering applies to the product, like the Surface Pro 1 and 2 with it's copper heatsink, heatpipe, and the heatpipe carries a gas which help transfer heat to the heatsink fins that are thin but many, increasing the surface area for the cooling. Or the Surface Pro 3 which heatures a heatsink of the shape of an enclosed C, with a good fan in the middle which output high static pressure to help cool off the heatsink, by dissipating heat.

Mix with the fact that most can't be bothered with a cheap compressed air can or vacuum (not great but its something), to clean the system fan at least once every 2 years, or every year if you have carpet, or non-central A/C (they have air filters to clean the air in house), or perhaps more frequent if you have animals. Clean fans are happy fans. And happy good quality fans are quiet to ultra quiet.

If you have a desktop computer, and wants to make it ultra quiet, look no further than getting Noctua fans. It is for a reason why they have a 6 year warranty, and not 90 day to at best a 1 year. Expensive, but the result is that you won't know if your computer is on or off, by the sound of it. And they push so much air, you can set them at lowest speed using the provided accessories if needed, to achieve such quiet level. I wish they did mobile computer fans. Then again, I don't think manufacture would be willing to spend 20$ on a fan.

 

[goodintentions]

I have been drooling to get an SP3. But...

...5 months ago I bought an i5 laptop (clocked at 2.4 ghz) for $300 so I could work with visual studio on-the-go on my LOB app and a surface rt for $199 to field test the LoB. Both of these combined still didn't cost me anywhere near an i5 or i7 sp3.

I simply cannot justify buying an sp3. Me sad.

 

[GoodBytes]

I have been drooling to get an SP3. But...

...5 months ago I bought an i5 laptop (clocked at 2.4 ghz) for $300 so I could work with visual studio on-the-go on my LOB app and a surface rt for $199 to field test the LoB. Both of these combined still didn't cost me anywhere near an i5 or i7 sp3.

I simply cannot justify buying an sp3. Me sad.

The Surface Pro product is Microsoft "halo" product. Microsoft's version of the Nvidia GeForce Titan if you like (even thought Titan is essentially a broken Tesla where it didn't pass certification for the hard environment the GPU will be in, but it is used by Nvidia at showcasing to consumers a taste of what the company can do, and don't expect everyone to get it). This is not a product for those seeking the best deal. It is a product that shows Microsoft vision, and glimpse of it in the future, offering you the best Windows experience possible, junk free (no subsidized extra trial software to reduce the price of the system as an ad vehicle for them), innovation, smart engineering, and high built quality, and ultra quiet operation (to fairly quiet operation under load, compared to other products of its class).

And for some reason, the above sounded like I copies and pasted this from Microsoft website. Sorry. :/

I know you have a Surface RT, but for those who don't and are in similar situation as you or just looking at getting a cheap laptop :

Here is what you would get with the Surface Pro (whether be 3 or decide to wait for the 4).
-> Clean system out of the box and ready to go, no junk, bare bone drivers without manufacture useless bloats, just the important stuff getting you the best Windows experience.
-> 1 system to carry. 1 system where you have all your stuff, no need to break your head in trying to transfer files between systems.
-> Thinner and lighter than the system that you have. (of the moment of this writing)
-> Quieter than your low cost system
-> Longer battery life
-> Digitizer screen for note taking, planning, drawing, conceptualizing, etc.
-> Best touch screen.
-> High speed and high-end SSD, and high-end memory (fast at the max the CPU supports, and decently low timings for being low powered DDR3). This point and the first, plays part into why the same specs machine from other manufactures aren't the same, where the Surface Pro being faster in benchmarks.
-> Solid build quality
-> IPS display for beautiful, non over-saturated or washed out colors, with wide view angles
-> Backlight of the display uses a dimmer circuit, and not a PWM (Pulse-width modulation) to control the back light intensity, reducing, for those sensitive: eye strain, headaches and makes the display easier to read (note: they are many factors for these effects, PWM is not only the factor. See your optimistic if you have problem looking at computer display as it could be something else. And perhaps you may want to try a non PWM driven display, such as most but not all, Dell UltraSharp monitors, select BenQ monitors, to name a few. Look at in-depth monitor review. They normally cover this). PWM driven back light, means that the LED row of the back light of the display which is used to illuminate the panel, turns on and off at a frequency based on the LED illumination strength and brightness settings, like a super fast strobe light, where you don't see the flickering. Slower the flickering, dimmer the display will be, brighter the display is, the faster it gets, and at max, it's full on. If you have trouble reading your display, and it is not because of reflection, and you feel the need to increase the brightness of the display, despite hurting your eyes, you are probably PWM backlight driven display sensitive.

PWM is used because:
-> Its not an issue for many/most people.
-> Consumes less power, helping increase battery life of the system
-> Cheap to implement. Much cheaper than a true dimming circuit.

Note: the Surface Pro line uses a hybrid design. I don't know how it is on the Pro 3, but the Pro 1 and 2, at ~30% brightness it switches from dimming circuit to PWM. This is probably to do its best to help extend the device battery life.

 

[EMINENT]

Fanless is a huge negative to me. No matter what CPU is involved, a fanless design means trading significant processing power for, what, slightly less of a humming noise? I'm not even sure what the draw there is. People seem to have this idea that you could make a chip power efficient enough that it wouldn't be a trade, but even the ARM chips in iPads could run faster with a more significant cooling solution. What I'd like to see is an i7 Broadwell chip with a fan. Theoretically (if you believe Intel) that system could hit significantly higher performance points at the same thermal output and power consumption.

Basically for me it's important that the SP remain "pro," by which I mean it not sacrifice performance in order to lure in the iPad crowd. Considering the existence of an i7 model this year I have to assume MS feels the same way right now. Weight is a different issue, and I appreciate continued efforts to reduce weight, but again I'd rather not make significant performance compromises to get there. Those people who say computers have gotten "fast enough" are insane, I'll never understand them.

After saying all that I'll add something different: If I were involved in designing the future Surface lineup I might continue to produce the SP with i5/i7 chips and then reintroduce the "Surface" (non-pro) line as something like that reference design: A light, thin, fanless system that, while significantly slower than the SP, can still run legacy software.

I agree. Arm still gets warm and hot too. I'd much rather have the tremendously designed fan available and come on less because of the chip having lower thermals at the same speed to do most work, than do without. Either way i'd be happy too. I wouldn't turn away the idea of it being thinner, lighter, and with longer battery.