After details from today's Apple event...
- Thread starter hypokondriak
- Start date
I had the Adonit Jot, and that worked great on the iPad2 but not on the Surface RT. Looks like the Pro works better. I do worry about the thin plastic disc with metal inside, though--after using it a lot, would it wear down and scratch the screen? Granted I don't use a screen protector either, but maybe a screen protector would lower the sensitivity of that pen.
WillysJeepMan
Member
Try drawing 2 equal equilateral triangles... one with your finger, one with a stylus (rubber or foam tip).
I don't have an Adonit stylus, I never needed one on the iPad to get good ink.
Please. That is just fanboy rationalization. In real life usage, the Surface is noticeably worse when using the same capacitive stylus (rubber / foam tip) on the iPad. Take 5 drawing apps on WinRT, 5 on iOS. Use the same stylus on the devices. The difference is quite noticeable. Even in your attempt to "be fairer" you neglect to consider that even the same drawing app will perform differently on the different platforms due to underlying differences in the API set.
And no, it does NOT depend on generation of iPad... I have a repurposed iPad 1, my wife's iPad 2, and my iPad 4, and all work equally accurately. With the obvious difference that the retina display on the 4 is crisper but just as accurate.
I'm not an Apple fanboy. I'm not a Microsoft fanboy. My record of appreciation for the Surface RT is evident in my posting history here. But I'm not blind to the deficiencies of the Surface.
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CrippsCorner
Well-Known Member
The problem is, you know that, I know that... but the general public doesn't, and tbh probably just doesn't care.
For most people there is no compelling reason to change from their iPad to a Surface 2. The Surface Pro 2 however, is a completely different ballgame. Even my girlfriend who is basically an Apple fangirl (is that a phrase lol) has considered getting a Surface Pro because she realises there is so much more to it (she wouldn't get a Surface because she uses Photoshop)
OP
hypokondriak
New Member
I have a Pro 1, a Surface 2, and a Pro 2 that I have yet to open. I think you might just be over valuing the Pro 1 because you own one. There are a lot of flaws too that really eat into it....like battery life, weight, and size. If we are truly talking most people than the market clearly shows most people want thinner, lighter, all day battery, and easier to manage. As an owner of a Pro 1 it is less compelling to the mass market than you think. It is a bridge device and nothing more than that.
Sent from the SurfaceForums.net app for Windows 8
beman39
New Member
why on earth would anyone want to use photoshop or any other photo editor on a tiny Surface pro 2 screen compared to a 22" or more?!! I do photo editing ALOT and I couldn't fathom making one of my wallpapers or what ever else on a 10" screen, even the tool windows I find to small on a 32" screen! lol
Please. As soon as you start tossing insults like that out, you do fall in the camp of being exactly the same as the Apple/Microsoft fanboys, by the way. Is it really that much worse? The entire point of capacitive screens is finger input. Few complain about the Surface screen accuracy because of that. But that also comes down to device expectations--under no circumstance should anyone buy an iPad or Surface (RT) for inking purposes. On the side, sure. The Surface screen may not be as great as a retina and capacitive sensitivity, but by no means is it a true "deficiency" in real life practice, which is touch. Anyone else has to get a proper stylus device.
The pen combined with size is actually a sweet spot for the Pro, from the point of view of (at least some, those who reviewed it) digital artists--do you know how much Cintiqs cost? Even the smallest size is going to be a lot less functional than a Surface Pro with great pen input and full Windows. Some people talk about how handling art in a small screen is pointless, failing to realize the mobility factor meaning you can actually do stuff on the road if necessary or if you want. And then don't forget the point of Pro as a laptop/desktop replacement is that you're expected to have externals at your desk anyway.
kristalsoldier
Well-Known Member
While this is really a contentious subject to get into and, as I read it, focused on primarily the inking capabilities of the iPad and the Surface, I'd venture a general opinion. This is based on my everyday usage of the iPad AND the Surface RT (not the Surface 2). First off, both devices are extremely well made. In terms of finish, they are excellent. But that is where the similarity (for me) ends.
There are certain tasks that are just easier on the iPad as compared to the Surface. Reading books is one example. But, to my mind, this is only because of the aspect ratio of the iPad. In portrait mode the Surface (like the Nexus 10) is ungainly. And, this where, at least in my use scenario, the so-called retina screen of the iPad shines.
OTOH, the iPad is - again in my experience - ungainly to use both as a surfing device AND as a device which one can convert very quickly into a highly mobile laptop. This is where the Surface excels. In both these use scenarios, the screen of the Surface is not a hindrance and with the Surface 2, the experience can only be better. And, interestingly, again, it is the aspect ratio - this time of the Surface - that works in its favour.
Then, of course, there is the question of apps. I think my use-case is ideally suited to compare the two. Why? Because I don't use too many apps. Though I was given a £30 credit for Apps from the Apple Store, I have not used more than £16 of it, which I used to buy book-reading apps. On the Surface, I have not paid for any apps.- and again, I don't have too many. If Office RT did not come preinstalled, then I would have bought it, but it does, and I consider that as something that enhances the value of the Surface.
How do both the devices perform? By this I mean, how smooth are they in day-to-day operation? How stable are they?
In my experience, both - aside from the initial issues involved with updating the iPad with iOS7 and the Surface with Win 8.1 RT - seem rather solid and confidence inspiring. However, I would give the edge here to the iPad over the Surface. This is because its basic apps like Mail etc. have been - again in my experience - very stable. I can't say the same for the Surface post the 8.1 update. Perhaps in a week or two, I will revise my opinion.
Lastly, in terms of battery life - a factor that gives weight and meaning to the element of mobility that each device aims to highlight - again, clearly, the iPad excels - particularly in stand-by mode. Of course, with the release of the Surface 2, and if the initial reviews are to be believed, then there has been a massive improvement in the battery life, but when compared to my 1st gen RT, the iPad clearly wins.
I would assess both devices as being similar in what they offer and I would be hardpressed to say that one is better than the other. So, what then accounts for the success of the iPad and the not-so-stellar market performance of the Surface?
Basically, I'd say, there are two core issues: (1) The iPad has the all-important mindshare by virtue of being the first consumer-grade tablet in the market. Yes, of course, I know that MS did have their tablets prior to that, but they were not really consumer grade and they were expensive; (2) The second reason follows from the first in the sense that having the mindshare, the iPad was also able to drive what I call the 'app phenomenon'. Thus, it is no surprise that the best apps are probably made for the iPad and it is this which has caught the fancy of the consumer.
According to me, there is a third reason, but that is a subsidiary one to the second reason mentioned above. I know of some very discerning individuals who are careful with their money (despite being really flush) and who have deliberately opted for the iPad. For these people, the iPad serves a clearly defined purpose and function. But a large percentage of iPad users are young and they - in a manner of speaking - have been born into the 'app phenomenon'. To them, accessing the web is via apps and not through the browser, which is why they make such a big deal out of the iTunes store and its contents. To them, any platform that does not have such 'portals' to the web (which is basically what apps are) is, in a manner of speaking, behind time. Thus, they tend to devalue such platforms. And, the more rabid sections within this population are the ones that we usually identify as the ones who have partaken of the Apple Kool-Aid!
In sum then, I think this comparative exercise - much of which is field by a media machine that thrives on sensationalism - between the iPad and the Surface (and Android devices) is an exercise in futility.
There are certain tasks that are just easier on the iPad as compared to the Surface. Reading books is one example. But, to my mind, this is only because of the aspect ratio of the iPad. In portrait mode the Surface (like the Nexus 10) is ungainly. And, this where, at least in my use scenario, the so-called retina screen of the iPad shines.
OTOH, the iPad is - again in my experience - ungainly to use both as a surfing device AND as a device which one can convert very quickly into a highly mobile laptop. This is where the Surface excels. In both these use scenarios, the screen of the Surface is not a hindrance and with the Surface 2, the experience can only be better. And, interestingly, again, it is the aspect ratio - this time of the Surface - that works in its favour.
Then, of course, there is the question of apps. I think my use-case is ideally suited to compare the two. Why? Because I don't use too many apps. Though I was given a £30 credit for Apps from the Apple Store, I have not used more than £16 of it, which I used to buy book-reading apps. On the Surface, I have not paid for any apps.- and again, I don't have too many. If Office RT did not come preinstalled, then I would have bought it, but it does, and I consider that as something that enhances the value of the Surface.
How do both the devices perform? By this I mean, how smooth are they in day-to-day operation? How stable are they?
In my experience, both - aside from the initial issues involved with updating the iPad with iOS7 and the Surface with Win 8.1 RT - seem rather solid and confidence inspiring. However, I would give the edge here to the iPad over the Surface. This is because its basic apps like Mail etc. have been - again in my experience - very stable. I can't say the same for the Surface post the 8.1 update. Perhaps in a week or two, I will revise my opinion.
Lastly, in terms of battery life - a factor that gives weight and meaning to the element of mobility that each device aims to highlight - again, clearly, the iPad excels - particularly in stand-by mode. Of course, with the release of the Surface 2, and if the initial reviews are to be believed, then there has been a massive improvement in the battery life, but when compared to my 1st gen RT, the iPad clearly wins.
I would assess both devices as being similar in what they offer and I would be hardpressed to say that one is better than the other. So, what then accounts for the success of the iPad and the not-so-stellar market performance of the Surface?
Basically, I'd say, there are two core issues: (1) The iPad has the all-important mindshare by virtue of being the first consumer-grade tablet in the market. Yes, of course, I know that MS did have their tablets prior to that, but they were not really consumer grade and they were expensive; (2) The second reason follows from the first in the sense that having the mindshare, the iPad was also able to drive what I call the 'app phenomenon'. Thus, it is no surprise that the best apps are probably made for the iPad and it is this which has caught the fancy of the consumer.
According to me, there is a third reason, but that is a subsidiary one to the second reason mentioned above. I know of some very discerning individuals who are careful with their money (despite being really flush) and who have deliberately opted for the iPad. For these people, the iPad serves a clearly defined purpose and function. But a large percentage of iPad users are young and they - in a manner of speaking - have been born into the 'app phenomenon'. To them, accessing the web is via apps and not through the browser, which is why they make such a big deal out of the iTunes store and its contents. To them, any platform that does not have such 'portals' to the web (which is basically what apps are) is, in a manner of speaking, behind time. Thus, they tend to devalue such platforms. And, the more rabid sections within this population are the ones that we usually identify as the ones who have partaken of the Apple Kool-Aid!
In sum then, I think this comparative exercise - much of which is field by a media machine that thrives on sensationalism - between the iPad and the Surface (and Android devices) is an exercise in futility.
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It does bother me that so many reviews and non-Surface users simply gloss over the inclusion of Office as value-added. Actually, I'd say that bothers me the most besides the whole app obsession--"work" is an evil word to some people. "Why would you buy a shiny device for work? That's stupid, ergo the device is stupid, all stop." Or, you know, some people actually enjoy their work, or some people do want a robust word processor for hobbies like writing novels. But they do cover different use cases and thus can't be fairly compared equally anyway (Surface and iPad especially). The book-reading bit is probably a far more common use case scenario than inking for both devices, and portrait is admittedly funky on a Surface. Although I'd probably recommend Kindle Paperwhite instead of an iPad for reading (books, anyway).
Remember that most so called tech journalists and news sites use Wordpress for the CMS and it chokes on Unicode so they need to use ASCII Text Editors, so for them Office doesn't mean anything. At the launch event most of the press had iPads or MacBook Air laptops and all were typing away using ASCII text editors :| Even Mary Jo stated she uses notepad for most of her work.
kristalsoldier
Well-Known Member
It does bother me that so many reviews and non-Surface users simply gloss over the inclusion of Office as value-added. Actually, I'd say that bothers me the most besides the whole app obsession--"work" is an evil word to some people. "Why would you buy a shiny device for work? That's stupid, ergo the device is stupid, all stop." Or, you know, some people actually enjoy their work, or some people do want a robust word processor for hobbies like writing novels. But they do cover different use cases and thus can't be fairly compared equally anyway (Surface and iPad especially). The book-reading bit is probably a far more common use case scenario than inking for both devices, and portrait is admittedly funky on a Surface. Although I'd probably recommend Kindle Paperwhite instead of an iPad for reading (books, anyway).
Agreed! Personally, I think the inclusion of Office is a huge enabler. And I remain mystified as to why it gains so little traction from the professional reviewers. On the question of the Kindle Paperwhite, I am not sure I would agree. Perhaps it works well when reading fiction, but I need something far more capable. The size of the iPad - in that particular role - is also critical. But then again, that is just me and based on my work. I should add that to me it is a sad commentary that we have now come to a stage where - as you put it - 'work' has become an ugly word. Or, it could just be the case that I am lucky that what passes for my understanding of 'work' and 'play' are inextricably mashed up!
kristalsoldier
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I know the types. There are some people around me who extol the virtues of Latex. I accept that it is a powerful tool, but you know when I submit my manuscript to publishers, they have the necessary staff who do what they have to do. I need only to submit my documents in their prescribed format AND IN MS WORD!
