As you pointed out laptops were initially very expensive but fell in price over time. High-end Windows tablets will also fall in price with each new generation. Were the first laptops over-prices? Not really; they were more expensive to produce. I don't think Microsoft really wants to sell low-mid end devices; they would rather leave that to OEMs. They are more interested in redefining what a tablet can be.
A baby mea culpa..
- Thread starter mitchellvii
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mitchellvii
Well-Known Member
Is that why the Surface Pro 2 is inferior in every way to the Dell XPS 11 which sells for less? Add to that MS's serious QC issues and I think they are missing the boat here.
SPro2 inferior in every way to the Dell XPS 11? Hardly. Look at them side by side. The XPS - meh. Looks like any other laptop. Oh wait, you can flip the screen around now have a tablet. Double Meh. Been there, done that with the Toshiba M200 what 10 years ago? Didn't like it then and don't like it now. IMO, any convertible laptop is a fail. I've used convertibles for years. Toshiba, IBM, then HP. While the concept is nice, they always fail. I hate having to flip, turn, twist, rotate, whatever to make the laptop function like a tablet. Walk into a business meeting with the Dell and you look like any other Schome.
Look at the SPro1/2. Beautiful. Stylish. Sturdy. Sexy. When MS announced the SP1 I knew then that this was the nirvana of laptop/tablets. Did I say sexy yet? Walk into any meeting with an SPro1/2 and you look like a business professional. Not like the rest of the Schmoe's who just drool with envy.
So, yes, perhaps the XPS is superior to the SP technically, but I would take the SP over the XPS all day long. And I don't mind paying a premium to have the nirvana of computer/tablet.
eltos_lightfoot
Active Member
Perfectly stated.
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mitchellvii
Well-Known Member
No wait, you are comparing the suitcase convertibles of 10 years ago with the extreme thin and light technology of the XPS 11? That's like saying I don't like a Porsche Cayman because I never liked minivans. As far as physical beauty there is no comparison, the build quality of the XPS 11 puts the Surface Pro 2 to shame. Better screen (much), unlimited viewing angles, better keyboard, easier to use on your lap, internal pen storage, greater battery life AND cheaper. What person other than a Surface fanboy would choose to actually pay MORE for the SP2 with these two devices side by side?
P.S., The XPS 11 mimics the hinge design of the runaway bestseller of early Windows 8 hybrids, the Yoga, meanwhile the SP2 sticks with a design which very few seemed to want and gives me 2 viewing options. That's fine, the SP2 form factor will appeal to some, but for gods sake MS reconsider your pricing.
BTW was at Best Buy the other day and I asked the reps there how the new Surface line was doing. They said the Surface 2 was doing ok but the Surface Pro 2 was not selling at all. Why not I asked? Too expensive the said. Obviously I responded.
Maybe the problem was they have the SP2 displayed right next to the Yoga 2 Pro which costs less (hundreds less) with a 3200 x 1800 13.3 inch screen. For the same price as a 128 GB SP2 with NO keyboard I can get the Yoga 2 Pro.
Fix your pricing MS.
** Fonz, I think you are confusing the Dell XPS 11 with the XPS 12. They are completely different.
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The White Falcon
New Member
Its a Dell. They build crappy products for the most part. Maybe that will change, but not anytime soon.
CrippsCorner
Well-Known Member
Must agree... we used to repair laptops at my previous job and Dell's were always coming back with problems. My girlfriend had a Dell laptop too and wow, the thing fell apart in 12 months. Build quality between Dell and Microsoft just isn't comparable tbh. My IntelliMouse 3.0 Explorer (best mouse ever!) lasted me 9 years
Mitch, yep I did mistake them. Still, I think the XPS is a fail. I'm not comparing the convertible tablets of old (bulky) with the new ones (svelte). There is no doubt that the new designs are light years better. My analogy was targeted toward the concept of the convertible tablets. Regardless of whether they are 10 yrs ago or current, convertibles require that you fold, twist, turn, pop up, whatever to give you a tablet feel. You still end up with a device that looks like a laptop pretending to be a tablet. Before the SP came out, I almost popped for the Yoga. I liked the svelte feel of the new convertible. I liked the screen size. But once I held it for awhile (I spend too much time at BestBuy) I realized that the laptop folded back over itself and I was holding a tabletish device and not really a tablet. The keys were actually exposed when you held it folded over. It brought back memories of the older tablets.
Surface fan boy? I guess so. But really, I just like the format of the SPro. This is truly a computer in tablet form factor. And that's what I want. Not a laptop trying to be a tablet. That's what works for me in my professional life and casual life. When I work, keyboard is attached and emails are flying. When I need to, keyboard is folded back or removed and I use the stylus to take notes or whiteboard. When I play, keyboard is removed and I have a tablet. Done. Period. I can play watch a movie. Play an app game. Read a Nook book.
You can't do that with a convertible. You will always have a 'laptop' that tries to be a tablet and, IMO, fails. So, for me, and possibly the other SPro users, we have seen what the convertibles have to offer and decided to pass on them. So put them up side by side, print out technical differences, compare the resolutions, etc, I will still take the SPro all day long.
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mitchellvii
Well-Known Member
This has been the Surface Pro's problem from the start. It is a device stuck in the middle. While a convertible is laptop first, tablet second, Surface Pro seeks to be a tablet first, laptop second. However, it's HEAVY and EXPENSIVE and HOT for a tablet and it's the wrong form factor (in so many ways) for a laptop. So you have a tablet-first device which is priced like an ultrabook. Tablet seekers will find it too expensive and ultrabook seekers will find it too limiting (screen size, ports, etc...)
It is a device without a country which explains it's weak sales.
Is the Surface Pro a good device? Sure. But is it the best tablet? No. Is it the best ultrabook? No. And there's your problem, it's not the best anything and yet it's pricing says it is.
I like my Surface Pro just fine and I use it every day. If I was looking to spend $1200 today on a new hybrid would I buy the SP again? Not a chance. It was the "best athlete" at the time but not even close now.
** One thing the Surface line suffers from is lack of curb appeal. Like you I spend way too much time checking out the latest technology porn at Bestbuy. There is just nothing sexy about the Surface display. In such a big space surrounded by all that shiny new technology, the Surface Pro just looks so diminutive (and pricey). It has zero wow factor. Compare this to the Yoga 2 Pro right next to it where you have this immediate visceral "Oh I want that!" reaction. I see people looking at the Surface 2 but I have NEVER seen even one person trying out the Surface Pro 2.
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