Surface Pro 4 - Intel Core M
- Thread starter Wiidesire
- Start date
Interesting wording there... I think they *could* slip Broadwell into the SP3 but they wont ...,at least not without a name revision like SP3B.
I will refer to Core M as Y mostly because it gets confusing.
Warning contains SPECULATION:
Based on an end of year shipment time I thought the Broadwell M (Y) based SP4 would hit in Q2 2015 however, I hear Intel have begun shipping and expect to see first product introductions by end of year.
SO ... is it possible for MS to do another short cycle on the Surface Pro??? would they go <9 mm thick and fanless??? [Intel demoed a 12.5" x 7 mm fanless tablet] ... I do think the SP3 was originally designed for Broadwell and they went with Haswell because of the Broadwell delay.
The first Broadwell chip to ship will be the Core M which is the low end Y series replacement. 3-5w TDP vs 11.5w in the Haswell Y series. The U series Broadwell is not coming until end of 2014 to first of 2015 and the current spec sheet posted lists it as the same 15w TDP (subject to change). SO will MS stick with U series and heat throttling or go with Y series potentially unthrottled???
I hear there is a 40% performance boost within the like series meaning Broadwell Y is 40% better than Haswell Y but its maybe 15% better than Haswell U and Broadwell U is 40% better than Haswell U. They would still get 40% better throttled performance OR 15% better unthrottled. These numbers are unofficial and subject to change.
I think they will go <9 mm thick and fanless with SP4 model(s) perhaps in Q1 2015. maybe there will be more models... perhaps high end unit(s) with U series chips ... maybe there will be an opening in the back to mate with the enhanced cooling attachment for heavy workloads. LOL.
MS needs to keep the ARM iron hot which will keep the pressure on Intel. Frankly Broadwell is not the final answer to ARM. 2015 will be more interesting but I don't think Intel will have this fully under control till the 2016 release.
The Tegra K1 is already heating up the competition and its yet to be seen where the rest of the 2014 ARM army will fall. A Surface 3 with Tegra K1 will be quite enjoyable to use. MS should also lift some of the artificial limitations they have on this platform and deliver on their promise of unprecedented productivity. Looking forward to the Spring when the Threshold is crossed ...
MS needs to keep the ARM iron hot which will keep the pressure on Intel. Frankly Broadwell is not the final answer to ARM. 2015 will be more interesting but I don't think Intel will have this fully under control till the 2016 release.
The Tegra K1 is already heating up the competition and its yet to be seen where the rest of the 2014 ARM army will fall. A Surface 3 with Tegra K1 will be quite enjoyable to use. MS should also lift some of the artificial limitations they have on this platform and deliver on their promise of unprecedented productivity. Looking forward to the Spring when the Threshold is crossed ...
ARMs advantage is really only in the small device/phablet space. The win for Intel occurs only when they can announce a joint google/intel reference device based on Android L 64 along with Win 9.
The Tegra line has had mixed reviews and success but will keep all the ARM vendors on its toes especially Qualcomm. But for all intents NVIDIA has ceded phones/small devices to Qualcomm.
my 2 cents
CrippsCorner
Well-Known Member
Probably not long knowing them! Much to the Surface Pro 3 owners annoyance no doubt...
InspectHerGadget
Active Member
It is interesting that Broadwell M is so close in performance to the current Haswell i5 in the SP3. It is unlikely though they'll put this in. The SP3 is a premium series machine and will require premium series hardware so they'll want to put in the fastest hardware, and with faster U chips do which are 40% faster I'm pretty sure that they'll use these.
It could be a conundrum for Microsoft though with lots of smaller and quite powerful tablets and hybrids available which are as fast as but smaller than with longer battery than....the SP3.
The other issue they have is that all this is going to slow sales as they've made such a short product release cycle that people that there is only a short window where what you have is 'state of the art' before the next release either happens or is visible on the horizon. Someone buying an SP1 say in October less than 12 months ago will be lucky to get 1/4 what they paid for their devices. SP2 owners are finding they're getting under 1/2 what they paid for them in some cases only a few months ago. SP3 owners will suffer the same fate in just a few months.
It leaves me in some confusion. If they are going to simply update aggressively, it is quite possible they'll just whack in the M Broadwell, right way (but I don't think so ). Common sense would have dictated that the SP3 would have been released with Windows 9, rather than the SP2 being upgraded not much more than six months after the SP2 upgrade.
I wouldn't put anything past Microsoft. They seem hell bent on aggressive release schedules so pretty well anything could happen.
I personally will be keeping my SP2 until they fix palm rejection and the pen on the SP3/4/5. I may end up keeping it until it dies and putting in a Broadwell chip won't make me buy one.
It could be a conundrum for Microsoft though with lots of smaller and quite powerful tablets and hybrids available which are as fast as but smaller than with longer battery than....the SP3.
The other issue they have is that all this is going to slow sales as they've made such a short product release cycle that people that there is only a short window where what you have is 'state of the art' before the next release either happens or is visible on the horizon. Someone buying an SP1 say in October less than 12 months ago will be lucky to get 1/4 what they paid for their devices. SP2 owners are finding they're getting under 1/2 what they paid for them in some cases only a few months ago. SP3 owners will suffer the same fate in just a few months.
It leaves me in some confusion. If they are going to simply update aggressively, it is quite possible they'll just whack in the M Broadwell, right way (but I don't think so ). Common sense would have dictated that the SP3 would have been released with Windows 9, rather than the SP2 being upgraded not much more than six months after the SP2 upgrade.
I wouldn't put anything past Microsoft. They seem hell bent on aggressive release schedules so pretty well anything could happen.
I personally will be keeping my SP2 until they fix palm rejection and the pen on the SP3/4/5. I may end up keeping it until it dies and putting in a Broadwell chip won't make me buy one.
I honestly do not think they will update the SP3 or even SP4 with a Broadwell Core M. Even if the performance is close and power usage so much lower, the main thing that they get from the Core i3/i5/i7 is the brand recognition.
They are betting on the SP3 being the 'tablet that can replace your laptop'. Even if performance wise that is still so with Core M in terms of mindshare it simply won't be. People will be looking to i3/i5/i7 as that is what they think of when they want performance. When a consumer is looking for a new device and is comparing specs, if the Surface does not have one of those chips, it will be immediately discounted unless they are a techie and know otherwise.
That's not to say they won't put a Broadwell Core I series chip in there in due course, they just won't put the Core M. The brand power just isn't there.
They are betting on the SP3 being the 'tablet that can replace your laptop'. Even if performance wise that is still so with Core M in terms of mindshare it simply won't be. People will be looking to i3/i5/i7 as that is what they think of when they want performance. When a consumer is looking for a new device and is comparing specs, if the Surface does not have one of those chips, it will be immediately discounted unless they are a techie and know otherwise.
That's not to say they won't put a Broadwell Core I series chip in there in due course, they just won't put the Core M. The brand power just isn't there.
They might... maybe... switch Surface to Core-M and continue using the U series on the Pro line BUT the performance difference would not be 40% perhaps in the 25% range. OR Maybe there will be a Pro Advanced Power or some such naming as Microsoft is want to do.
As long as they use 15w parts in these devices heat will be an issue unless they come up with some novel solution to dissipate the heat.
As long as they use 15w parts in these devices heat will be an issue unless they come up with some novel solution to dissipate the heat.
InspectHerGadget
Active Member
It would be tempting to split the range. A fan less but still very powerful SP3 would be tempting for many people especially with the extra battery life.
It could be that new Broadwell M hybrids may force Microsoft to do something. There will be a lot of competition and a lot of nice devices coming out with great performance, as good as current SP3 but with no fan and much longer battery life.
It could be that new Broadwell M hybrids may force Microsoft to do something. There will be a lot of competition and a lot of nice devices coming out with great performance, as good as current SP3 but with no fan and much longer battery life.
wynand32
Well-Known Member
I'm happy to say that my wife's notebook is on its last leg. So, when the SP4 is released, she'll get this SP3 and I'll get the SP4 (because I care about such things and she just wants something that works). If this weren't my situation, I think I could be happy with the SP3 for at least two years, which is about as long as I keep my notebooks.
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