SP2 vs SP3

[ctitanic]

Correct, but how can we be expected to be happy with a new version of a device that is replacing the previous device that is quite a bit slower, yet advertised as faster and is made to "replace our laptops"?

Nobody is looking for 47w Quad Core performance here, we just want 15w dual core mobile performance that the SP2 delivered all day long.

On that note, how do you expect it to go when those that bought the i7 and paid twice the i3 price actually get slower performance when doing serious work? I see storms ahead unless MS gets in gear.

I see your point but you are forgetting that the SP3 is thinner and weight less than the PRO 2. These changes have changed the cooling design and the way to compensate is to regulate the processor differently than in a SP2 with more "cooling" area.

 

[David McCabe]

Hey Guys,

Wow, this forum is big! Puts SurfaceGeeks.net forums to shame! Thanks for the link and the mention be77solo.
I'm not here to stir the pot but rather to say that Microsoft does hear you. Trust me. They read and listen. If they do miss something, MVP's like myself and Frank let them know about it. I don't think you will find a finer MVP than Frank. Both an advocate for Microsoft and you the SP3 owner.

They are actively reaching out as we speak. They want to know how you use the device and how you are coming up to the thermal ceiling. What are you using, what did you install, what did you change? Every little detail helps. The Surface Team has an extensive testing facility but as you have heard before, they can't catch it all. My SP2 setup alone stunned most of the team! I don't think they were ready for how I abused that poor little Surface Pro 2!

I'm confident that there is compromise somewhere in the SP3. If it were up to me I would let the fan spin as fast as it can go. I need it as a "desktop replacement" as I stated in the Surface Geeks Podcast. That's not a good solution for a portable device however. Afterall, this is touted as a Laptop and Table replacement. That is job 1. Having said that Microsoft wants us all to be happy so they are looking at all the scenarios we are putting the SP3 through.

If it were me, i would refrain from software that unlocks the CPU or changes its properties. I don't like telling you to wait but I would just say have an ounce of patience because they are heads down on this. I have chatted with Engineering team members and they hear you. And yes, sometimes it take an MVP to return the very device he specializes in!

I'll add this forum to my TapaTalk and if you have questions or comments please PM me or visit SurfaceGeeks.net. I'm supposed to be on vacation!

Dave
Surface MVP

 

[jnjroach]

Welcome Dave....thanks for the comments

 

[be77solo]

Thanks Dave, glad to see ya found us here; was hoping I wouldn't offend with the blatant copy/paste on my part.

I do look forward to seeing where Microsoft takes this, and simply knowing they are in fact working on it is enough for now. I love the Surface Pro line, have owned all three, but I'm honestly disappointed in the performance of version 3. I realize it's thinner, but in the same token it's also taller/wider and they have touted the benefits of their new fan design. Unfortunately, they just have it choked down artificially so far it is crushing productivity/enjoyment as you also discovered. And like you, I also sold my SP2 to justify the SP3, so am left with a worse performing solution as I honestly never expected the performance loss.

I'd still love for Microsoft to acknowledge this topic in some form or fashion.

 

[ctitanic]

Welcome Dave! It's nice to see you here!

 

[gtext]

Looking at this thread and potentially looking a purchasing when available in Oz I have a few questions. Most likely will be the i7 256GB.

Need the ability to run Gotomeeting conference calls and Skype calls maybe with Video. Also Microsoft Lync. How will it handle those?

Feedback from someone who uses those please but realize they'd be using an i5.

 

[infer66]

I too waited until MS fixed the bluetooth/wifi issue on the SP2. The solution was to discontinue the device after 8 months of baggy firmware and drivers.
My advice is buy the SP3 for what it is, a light workload windows tablet. Don't wait for a miracle fix.
Fortunately I still have my buggy SP2 and I have learned to live without bluetooth devices.

 

[ctitanic]

I too waited until MS fixed the bluetooth/wifi issue on the SP2. The solution was to discontinue the device after 8 months of baggy firmware and drivers.
My advice is buy the SP3 for what it is, a light workload windows tablet. Don't wait for a miracle fix.
Fortunately I still have my buggy SP2 and I have learned to live without bluetooth devices.

I guess this is a good advice. I do not feel the pain of those having problems with BT because I always had problems with this technology long before the Surface were released. So all time I try to avoid the use of it and at this moment I do not use it at all in my SP3. I use it in my car connecting my phone and that's it.

 

[jnjroach]

Looking at this thread and potentially looking a purchasing when available in Oz I have a few questions. Most likely will be the i7 256GB.

Need the ability to run Gotomeeting conference calls and Skype calls maybe with Video. Also Microsoft Lync. How will it handle those?

Feedback from someone who uses those please but realize they'd be using an i5.

I use Lync 2013 everyday with out issue for multiple conference calls, use Skype and have had to use Webex and GoToMeeting, all work well....

 

[dstrauss]

David - good to see you here - a fan of SurfaceGeek (in fact, I started this whole mess here and at TabletPCReview by pointing to your podcast about returning the SPro 3).

Since we are all dragging the "fight" over here, I'd like to repeat my observation over there as well:

"I agree with Jeff [jnjroach]. For 80-90% of users, the SPro 3 can replace their ultrabook and tablet. I have not tested, but have OWNED, numerous systems, as you all know (MacBook Air 13, MacBook Pro 15, Dell XPS 12, Acer Aspire V7, Surface Pro, Surface Pro 2), and with the exception of the rMBP 15, it meets or exceeds performance of all of these.

Am I a gamer - no.
Do I compile large programs - no.
Do I manage mega databases or spreadsheets - no.
Do I edit large RAW photos - no.

But I've had no problems with day to day productivity apps; OneNote; PowerPointless; Netflix HD; Skype; general browsing and media viewing. So maybe it is only valuable for us computing wimps, but I think not. The SPro 3 is what it is, and if it is not full powered enough for your needs, perhaps you need to look at a more robust solution.

This is NOT to minimize your concerns and frustrations, but in this form factor and feature set, it is a godsend, and pretty much is the Holy Grail we have been searching for. Good luck with your quests."

Hopefully MS will be able to tweak some settings to address power user concerns at least in part. But as it stands, the Surface Pro 3 is the best "Swiss Army knife" of ultrabooks and tablets. Would I whittle all day with that blade - no; would I rebuild a car engine with the screwdrivers and pliers it may have no; would I carry it all day for whatever might come up - you bet. That's how I see the SPro 3.

 

[drolem]

Unfortunately, they just have it choked down artificially so far it is crushing productivity/enjoyment as you also discovered. And like you, I also sold my SP2 to justify the SP3, so am left with a worse performing solution as I honestly never expected the performance loss.

How do you know that it's being throttled, and what are you doing when that happens?

The SP3 is, after all, primarily a tablet, not a workstation.

 

[grumpy]

But I've had no problems with day to day productivity apps; OneNote; PowerPointless; Netflix HD; Skype; general browsing and media viewing.

An iPad or Android device can handle those usage scenarios. The SP3 is specifically marketed as a laptop replacement "jack of all trades" type of device.

Hopefully MS will be able to tweak some settings to address power user concerns at least in part.

I wouldn't hold out too much hope since the SP3 issues are rooted in an inadequate cooling solution. Sure, MS could tweak the thermal profile, but it is just going to result in the device running hotter which will possibly result in other issues.

But as it stands, the Surface Pro 3 is the best "Swiss Army knife" of ultrabooks and tablets.

Of course, this is subjective, but I think that the SP2 represents better engineering compromises. For me, while I like the new aspect ratio, the reduction in sustained performance is unacceptable. I don't think that it is unreasonable to expect the SP3 to have at least as good performance all around as the SP2. MS sacrificed too much chasing the iPad form factor and seriously hobbling the performance for the sake of a few millimeters was not a good decision. Sure, it looks sexy in side-by-side photos with the iPad, but it is marketed as a device that can do real work. Trying to be an iPad will be the death of the Surface line.

I think that the best solution moving forward would be to make the i7 versions a few millimeters thicker with a more robust cooling solution. This would likely make most people happy, but it is probably highly unlikely.