Shape and Size of the Surface

[J515OP]

I am not sure how anyone can argue that the device is really useless in Portrait mode. The iPad and other Android tablets become pretty ideal to use in portrait mode for reading books. E-Ink readers are not able to compete with tablets when it comes to taking notes and highlighting when reading a book.

I think you misunderstood my point. I was not arguing that the Surface was pointless in portrait mode. What I was saying is that it is a tablet first and not a reader. Yes it can be used to read but something smaller would make a better casual reading device for holding in one hand and that is lighter. I don't only mean e-Ink readers. I mean 7" tablets like the Galaxy Tab 7.0, the Nook Color and Nook Tablet, the Kindle Fire, the Nexus 7 and even the iPad mini.

None of these are e-Ink readers but they are all smaller in form factor and made to be used in portrait mode with a primary use being reading. This includes taking notes and highlighting. These are fully functional tablets and can be used for gaming, music, videos and anything else you can throw at them. Perhaps you need to reconsider this category with the understanding that they can do anything a larger tablet can do but offer a superior form factor for reading which seems to be your primary concern, form over function. In these cases the form is lending itself to reading though which seems to be your primary function.

To the earlier point about typing angles- I rarely use the iPad on its own to type. Any 3rd party case, or the smart cover offers a typing angle/s. This becomes virtually impossible on the Surface since putting the tablet in a case will eliminate the kick stand functionality...

I am not necessarily giving up on the product, but I have some frustrations with the limitations resulting from the design decisions. Maybe I'll eventually learn to appreciate these design decisions which is why I decided to post this thread and see what other think about the screen size & shape of the tablet.

You aren't required to use the kickstand. If the case replaces the kickstand functionality with multiple angles use the case's solution or use any third party tablet stand with adjustable angles you would use with the iPad. In fact you can use the iPad's smart cover and roll it up into little triangles and use it with the Surface just as you can with the iPad. Sure it won't directly connect to the hinge but it doesn't need to. You are essentially just using it as a wedge for a certain angle and in that sense any wedge will do. Since you happen to have the iPad cover use it. Use some imagination and common sense and you should be able to place the Surface in whatever position you find the most comfortable.

There are hundreds of options but here are a couple of examples. These are universal solutions.


Amazon.com: IPAD-ST: Universal Tablet Stand for iPad, Kindle, and Tablet PC: Kindle Store


Canada Computers | Notebooks, Netbooks & Tablets | Rocelco Tablet Computer Stand

The question is very simple, would the Surface be a better device if it was released in a more traditional 10 inch form factor?

MSFT is trying to capture the same consumer market as Apple with the RT.. So regardless of whether or not you are a rubber stamp fan the long term success of the Surface RT is dependent on mass sales.

Absolutely not. First of all lets get this straight, 10" is the size not the form factor and the Surface is already in "the 10" size category." What you are referring to is aspect ratio. iPad is 4:3 and Surface and many other tablets are 16:9. Each has their pros and cons. However, it is presumed that a major activity these days on computers and tablets is watching video. 16:9 is superior for this activity and is the reason the vast majority of devices now feature 16:9 as the screen ratio.

The device is the device and the form factor is probably not the make or break factor. That is really a personal preference and one that comes back to the intended activity. For the majority this again comes back to video. For each person that likes 4:3 there will be one that likes 16:9 so it is going to be a wash at best and not lead to any further sales. You are basing your speculation on the assumption that 4:3 is a superior and more desirable form factor and that being the iPad is the end goal for any device to be successful. In fact the Surface trumps the iPad in any number of ways (USB port, micro-SD card, touch and type covers, Office, live tiles...)

The Surface may not be as dependent on mass sales as you think. Yes more sales will help the Surface but Microsoft appears to have a much larger end game. They are not suddenly becoming a tablet manufacture, they are pushing software and an ecosystem. The Surface sets a standard that their OEM partners can shoot for. The more successful their partners are in making great tablets the more copies of Windows they sell and the more people they keep in their ecosystem.

Apple literally needs to sell millions and millions of devices to be successful. Microsoft doesn't need to sell one single device to be successful. They are different businesses.

JP

 

[borka105]

A lot of great points here. I've learned quite a lot from reading the responses here in this thread.

A few additional points/comments:
1) I was under the impression that the Android Nexus 10 was not a 16:9, but a 16:10 which makes the tablet less narrow and more usable in portrait mode.
2) I have not explored the thumb typing option. I rarely used it on my iPad, but I will try it on the Surface and see if I like it more

 

[J515OP]

Again, I think by the time you factor in the bezel and the overall design the differences are negligible. It is really a matter of personal preference of shape more than any huge difference in over all form. It isn't like comparing a 7" to a 10" which is significantly different in size, or that one of them is a circle. Largely they are all rectangles of about the same size and shape. Piled together they begin to look the same.







You get the idea.

 

[ArnoldC]

10.6 was carefully picked by the designers for two reasons, screen splitting with the Modern UI offered the best functionality and also it offered the best experience in Thumb Typing. 11.6 and Thumb Typing is very uncomfortable and 10.1 with the screen splitting feels to small.

Some people just don't get it and complain. And worse, call it a design flaw.

 

[Griff]

There are compromises with everything. It's just a matter of whether or not this particular set of compromises fit your needs.

 

[Sin]

I love the form factor of the Surface and I'm glad that Microsoft didn't just copy iPad size. I prefer the widescreen 16:9 layout of the Surface over the 4:3 layout of an iPad.

 

[borka105]

Again, I think by the time you factor in the bezel and the overall design the differences are negligible. It is really a matter of personal preference of shape more than any huge difference in over all form. It isn't like comparing a 7" to a 10" which is significantly different in size, or that one of them is a circle. Largely they are all rectangles of about the same size and shape. Piled together they begin to look the same.

View attachment 200

View attachment 201

View attachment 202

You get the idea.

I disagree. Microsoft itself points to the fact that they had to build the display from scratch since a 10.6 inch screen didn't exist...why go through all this trouble if the difference is negligible?

Let's not try to generalize and say that it's all the same when Microsoft spends a lot of time during their advertisements explaining their investment in the custom screen size.

It also does not make their decision correct. Clearly Asus disagreed based on the fact that their product has a 10 inch screen and is running RT.

I have owned a nook tablet, touchpad, playbook, and iPad so I feel comfortable saying that the form factor does impact how the tablet feels in my hand and as a result the experience is also different.

I understand that to you it may be too minor to make a difference. I can promise you that Microsoft and its lead designers would strongly disagree with that thought.

 

[J515OP]

That just goes to show there is no right answer and it is all advertising. Advertisement is all about selling. Of course they are going to say these things to convince you their choice is best. It has been mentioned several times the choices are a compromise and there is no perfect solution. All this comes down to is hype really. The shape of the edges has been mentioned by the designers of these devices as having the most influence on the feel in the hand.

Difference in length 0.41", 0.9" and 1.31". If you center the devices over one another so the difference is split on either side you get 0.205", 0.45" and 0.655". If they so chose, adjusting the width of the bezel but not the screen could easily result in devices of the exact same length with only minor changes. Not so different.

Difference in widths 0.13", 0.41" and 0.54". Again split the difference to either side and you get 0.065", 0.205" and 0.27" which could easily be dealt with by adjusting bezel size but leaving the screen the same.

Difference in thickness 0.02". That is only 2/100 of an inch!

Not sure what else to say here except you are arguing over fractions of an inch difference in any direction even between the largest and smallest dimensions.

I still say the differences are minor and if you put a stack of these turned off tablets in front of an Amish person they would tell you they are basically the same. This would also apply to smart phones. At the end of the day they are all rectangles of more or less the same size with a glass screen. Design choices influence style but little else when it comes to the over all use of the devices.

Yes there are reasons for each choice but the differences are minor when it comes to using the things. The shapes themselves are not preventing anybody form you know, actually using these as tablets. It is only people that are enthusiasts like here that debate the details. That can be good and provide direction to the OEMs as well as raise specific points that wouldn't be considered otherwise. Some people may legitimately feel one device suits them better than another for a variety of reasons but that doesn't intrinsically make one of those design decisions the best.

To make an analogy, if you aren't a car enthusiast the KTM X-bow and the Ariel Atom are the same thing. Yet if you put them in front of the right crowd you will get an endless debate about which is better and for what reasons. If you happen to be a car expert, then we can say the same thing about boats, watches, even needle point (can you tell me which stitch is best?).

It is really all quite relative but if you need hype to tell you which is best or just have a personal preference then go with the one that suits you best.

 

[borka105]

That just goes to show there is no right answer and it is all advertising. Advertisement is all about selling. Of course they are going to say these things to convince you their choice is best. It has been mentioned several times the choices are a compromise and there is no perfect solution. All this comes down to is hype really. The shape of the edges has been mentioned by the designers of these devices as having the most influence on the feel in the hand.

Difference in length 0.41", 0.9" and 1.31". If you center the devices over one another so the difference is split on either side you get 0.205", 0.45" and 0.655". If they so chose, adjusting the width of the bezel but not the screen could easily result in devices of the exact same length with only minor changes. Not so different.

Difference in widths 0.13", 0.41" and 0.54". Again split the difference to either side and you get 0.065", 0.205" and 0.27" which could easily be dealt with by adjusting bezel size but leaving the screen the same.

Difference in thickness 0.02". That is only 2/100 of an inch!

Not sure what else to say here except you are arguing over fractions of an inch difference in any direction even between the largest and smallest dimensions.

I still say the differences are minor and if you put a stack of these turned off tablets in front of an Amish person they would tell you they are basically the same. This would also apply to smart phones. At the end of the day they are all rectangles of more or less the same size with a glass screen. Design choices influence style but little else when it comes to the over all use of the devices.

Yes there are reasons for each choice but the differences are minor when it comes to using the things. The shapes themselves are not preventing anybody form you know, actually using these as tablets. It is only people that are enthusiasts like here that debate the details. That can be good and provide direction to the OEMs as well as raise specific points that wouldn't be considered otherwise. Some people may legitimately feel one device suits them better than another for a variety of reasons but that doesn't intrinsically make one of those design decisions the best.

To make an analogy, if you aren't a car enthusiast the KTM X-bow and the Ariel Atom are the same thing. Yet if you put them in front of the right crowd you will get an endless debate about which is better and for what reasons. If you happen to be a car expert, then we can say the same thing about boats, watches, even needle point (can you tell me which stitch is best?).

It is really all quite relative but if you need hype to tell you which is best or just have a personal preference then go with the one that suits you best.

View attachment 209

Very well said. You are absolutely right that if you ask someone who is not a hardcore gadget/technology enthusiast they will not see much of a difference.

I do though tend to believe that most decisions were made for a reason...I spend many hours myself tweaking the tiniest of things for items that relate to my profession.

I am an adopter of most technology... because I care.

Which is why forums like this one are so great. Well said though...

 

[J515OP]

Very well said. You are absolutely right that if you ask someone who is not a hardcore gadget/technology enthusiast they will not see much of a difference.

I do though tend to believe that most decisions were made for a reason...I spend many hours myself tweaking the tiniest of things for items that relate to my profession.

I am an adopter of most technology... because I care.

Which is why forums like this one are so great. Well said though...

Yes I do agree the choices are made for a reason. Sometimes a technical reason, sometimes a design reason and sometimes just a preference of the the person making the choice. I do understand your point that there are differences because there certainly are. However, I personally don't think the differences in shape are enough to change the fact that these are all tablets and nothing about those shapes prevents use as a tablet at the most general level. I can still hold each similarly to the others and read on each in either orientation or watch movies on each regardless of format.

Does the extra 1.31" of width make typing on a keyboard that much easier? Do black bars ruin the part of the video I am actually looking at? Do I prefer my eyes going left to right more frequently but down for longer before coming back up? What is the ideal angle from a horizontal surface to interact with a touch screen? A screen and keyboard? Well like you said, that is why these forums are so great

JP

 

[Sin]

As for your analogy of the KTM X-bow and the Ariel Atom, easy, I'll take either!:cool2: