machistmo
Active Member
Define Soon. If by soon, you mean Microsoft 'soon' then I agree absolutely and I will look forward to their launch in March of 2014.
Next gen Surface in testing !!!
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Define Soon. If by soon, you mean Microsoft 'soon' then I agree absolutely and I will look forward to their launch in March of 2014.
mitchellvii
Well-Known Member
Riddle me this Batman.
What is the economic benefit to MS of creating a Surface Pro 2 to undercut their Hardware Partners? They did it this first time to 1) motivate their Hardware Partners to create better hardware for Windows 8 (check) and 2) to increase exposure to Windows 8 on a touch device (check). So now that they have accomplished their two primary goals for making the device in the first place, what is the economic motivation to continue producing something that pisses everyone off? If MS can sell an upgraded SP II for $900 that puts pricing pressure on their Hardware Partners who are selling their hybrids at $1200. Is that a path MS really wants to follow?
The Surface RT II makes sense because basically no one else is making RT's anymore. ASUS just bailed this week. The RT business is gonna be all MS and they can keep a low-cost flagship product out there. The Surface Pro II makes no sense because the only way they can make money with it is to cut margins so thin they would have to make it on the volume and folks, there ain't much volume. You risk much by annoying your Hardware Partners for no economic benefit. As the CEO of Acer told MS, stay out of the hardware business because you don't do it well - $900 million in the hole later, he was right.
Don't forget, from an economic standpoint, the entire Surface line thus far has been a spectacular failure. You think Ballmer won't think twice about jumping in with both feet again?
Don't fall into the logical fallacy that simply because a company CAN do something they SHOULD do something. Microsoft is now a hardware company the way that Amazon is a hardware company - that is, although both sell hardware, they aren't hardware companies, they are content companies that sell hardware to promote content.
Does MS have the capacity to create a Surface Pro II? Yes. Does it make business sense? No.
** Has anyone else noticed we are hearing lots of buzz from MS on the Surface II (RT dropped apparently) but NOTHING from MS themselves about the Surface Pro II? All we have on SP II is third hand rumors.
They say that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Who is imitating the Surface Pro? Right, no one. What is working in the hybrid space right now is not tablets that can be ultrabooks (Surface Pro), but ultrabooks that can be tablets (everyone else). This is what business users need. 80% ultrabook, 20% tablet. They need bigger screens, longer battery life, backlit keyboards and more ports - all things Surface Pro will NEVER be able to compete with because of it's form factor as primarily a tablet.
What is the economic benefit to MS of creating a Surface Pro 2 to undercut their Hardware Partners? They did it this first time to 1) motivate their Hardware Partners to create better hardware for Windows 8 (check) and 2) to increase exposure to Windows 8 on a touch device (check). So now that they have accomplished their two primary goals for making the device in the first place, what is the economic motivation to continue producing something that pisses everyone off? If MS can sell an upgraded SP II for $900 that puts pricing pressure on their Hardware Partners who are selling their hybrids at $1200. Is that a path MS really wants to follow?
The Surface RT II makes sense because basically no one else is making RT's anymore. ASUS just bailed this week. The RT business is gonna be all MS and they can keep a low-cost flagship product out there. The Surface Pro II makes no sense because the only way they can make money with it is to cut margins so thin they would have to make it on the volume and folks, there ain't much volume. You risk much by annoying your Hardware Partners for no economic benefit. As the CEO of Acer told MS, stay out of the hardware business because you don't do it well - $900 million in the hole later, he was right.
Don't forget, from an economic standpoint, the entire Surface line thus far has been a spectacular failure. You think Ballmer won't think twice about jumping in with both feet again?
Don't fall into the logical fallacy that simply because a company CAN do something they SHOULD do something. Microsoft is now a hardware company the way that Amazon is a hardware company - that is, although both sell hardware, they aren't hardware companies, they are content companies that sell hardware to promote content.
Does MS have the capacity to create a Surface Pro II? Yes. Does it make business sense? No.
** Has anyone else noticed we are hearing lots of buzz from MS on the Surface II (RT dropped apparently) but NOTHING from MS themselves about the Surface Pro II? All we have on SP II is third hand rumors.
They say that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Who is imitating the Surface Pro? Right, no one. What is working in the hybrid space right now is not tablets that can be ultrabooks (Surface Pro), but ultrabooks that can be tablets (everyone else). This is what business users need. 80% ultrabook, 20% tablet. They need bigger screens, longer battery life, backlit keyboards and more ports - all things Surface Pro will NEVER be able to compete with because of it's form factor as primarily a tablet.
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This question is both wrong and loaded.
A much better question could be: "What is the economic benefit to MS of creating a Surface Pro 2 that's better than the original?"
mitchellvii
Well-Known Member
Fine, ask that question your way and the answer is the same. The cost to MS's damaged relationship with their Hardware Partners far outweighs any small profit they may achieve from a SP II. Like I said, the market is going to ultrabooks that can be used as a tablet, not tablets that can be used as an ultrabook. A business person needs 10+ hours battery life, backlit keyboard, more ports and a bigger screen. SP will NEVER be able to compete on that level. SP1 was not a colossal failure because it wasn't made right, it was a colossal failure because it isn't the right device. Business people just don't need this form factor. SP RT was a colossal failure because it wasn't made right. That can be fixed.
Every SP Microsoft sells is money out of their Hardware Partner's pocket. Not so with Surface RT as everyone else has abandoned that. MS can create a better RT and sell the hell out of it risk free. If you think MS's goal in making the SP in the first place was to become the #1 hybrid maker you probably also think Amazon created the Kindle because they want to make billions in tablets (that's why they sell each one at a loss).
Also, if the SP form factor worked you would see it being imitated elsewhere. But no, no one else is creating tablet 2 ultrabook, only ultrabook 2 tablet. When NO ONE is trying to copy you that's a bad sign.
If the Surface II comes out with a Snapdragon 8, full HD screen and a pen at a reasonable price there is honestly no need for a SP II. Consumers won't step up and business people won't step down.
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machistmo
Active Member
MS has already confirmed that the RT2 will come with the Tegra4. Why would the full blown tablet come with a snapdragon? Well not risk-free, but they can add any existing RT sales profits directly to the bottom line. Thats the point of the recent write-off. I think we are going to see at least 3 versions of the Surface surface this go around, perhaps more than that. Just a guess. The SP2 is already in testing by MS employees. I understand its a pretty broad test too including thousands of employees.
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mitchellvii
Well-Known Member
So far everything I have read online about Surface Pro 2 has been rumor and speculation. While the info on Surface II has been solid.
Amazing how if thousands of MS employees are actually testing the SP 2 that there is NO solid news on it.
Surface Pro 2 (if there is one) will fail as badly as Surface Pro 1 because it is a "device in the middle". It is better than just a consumption tablet but not good enough for a pure business hybrid. Hybrid ultrabooks have a HUGE advantage over the Surface Pro form factor. They can put in a bigger battery, a backlit keyboard, more ports and a more stable platform for use as a laptop. Most business people will not be willing to "make sacrifices" to save a few hundred bucks when losing one deal could cost them thousands.
I can get a Sony Duo at Bestbuy for $1399. WHY would I buy an SP II with smaller screen, fewer ports and no backlit keyboard for just $200 less and WHY would I sacrifice all that for a few hundred less? Remember, when you bought your Surface Pro hybrids were heavy, thick and offered no pen. Now they are light, thin and offer a pen.
The Surface Pro II's ONLY hope for success is at a steep discount to ultrabook hybrids. That being said they will have to offer fewer features or risk losing money on every unit. If they cut features to sell it cheaper they will lose their business audience. Who exactly will buy the Surface Pro 2? Remember YOU like the Surface Pro because you own it, but there is no denying it has been a complete sales failure for the reasons I just stated.
MS should go all-in on the Surface II but abandon the Surface Pro II. As a device it makes no sense. Again, no one else is imitating the Surface Pro form factor. No one. That tells you a lot.
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Hmm...interesting all this coming from a Pro owner. With all that hate, what would you recommend for SP lookers?
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