New Surface Pro Owner Experience So Far...

[Devolver]

Found yet another bug....on battery if you set to sleep at 10 minutes (for example) and hibernate at 30 minutes, the SP won't hibernate. No idea why....I'll spend some time trying to debug yet another MS bug.

Devolver, the SP is definitely small. It's like having a heavy iPad. But after having it for a while, I do wonder (again) if the compromises are worth it. For example, the SP with type cover is 2.5lbs while a 13" MacBook air is 3lbs. A Yoga 2 pro is 3lbs too. And both the Yoga and Air have WAY better battery life, bigger screens and better keyboards. So on the go, the weight difference is so little and you get so much more from regular ultrabooks. The digitizer on the SP is nice though...

For $540 it's a pretty darn good value though and is cheaper than an iPad but does more (if you can ignore the weight issue). At 1100 or more (with a cover) I'm just sure I get it at all....but like I said, I do LIKE the SP I just feel like it's not practical. I might think better of it too once the power cover comes out if it adds another 3-4 hours of battery life. But with the power cover, the SP will weight 3lbs!

--skell

I tried the Yoga Pro from a friend for a day, and felt the hinge mechanic was to clunky, and since I am often commuting I can imagine that the hinges might get worn down from repeated tablet mode use. I cannot imagine myself using an Apple product any time soon. I am dependent on the Windows(7) environment for so much of my day to day software use.

I am an electronics engineer student and I would love to be able to create and change schematics on the go, so the tablet form factor is a must for me.
Do you mind answering some more questions?
How rigid is the type cover?

In regards to you bug problems, part of being a windows power user is getting use to tinkering, the software freedom the windows platform gives also makes room for a lot of fragmentation. Although it should ideally be at a minimum, considering the SP is MS's own hardware.

 

[kundas1]

lol huffy and puffy. I guess at this point I am as guilty and confrontational as you in derailing this thread, but I am fascinated because I cannot get behind the mindset. Even if there are 10 other topics how hard is it not to click on a link where the threads content is clear, and as you said of no interest to you.

But you wanted to debate redundancy, although if we must be honest what you brought to the table, was basically telling the OP to shut up and build a better machine himself, how is that a debate? Telling someone to shut up isn't the beginning incentive of a debate surely you can understand that.
I cannot see an argument for redundancy when the OP is a unique and new member expressing his personal experiences.

Which would have been helpful to me, as I could have gotten real time information without necroing a thread, from someone who is a complete novice to the windows8 environment and the SP which is very unique machine, much like myself. Luckily it seems that he has not abandoned the thread, despite the unnecessary antagonistic responses.

However maybe you can be of some use, could you answer some of the questions I asked the OP? your opinion is as good as his, as long there is useful content. I hope that you wont mind answering despite our disagreement. Like I wrote earlier I don't care about sentiments too much, just seeking an informative discussion

how do you feel about the portability? as that has been the main draw for me, a full power OS on the go. Is it easy to handle in commutes or while not at a desk?

Wow talk about putting words in my mouth... no one told him to shut up.... BUT ANYWAYS

 

[lparsons21]

To the OP, sounds like you got a buggy SP1.

I got mine a couple weeks ago and have had no problems with it other than the Touch Cover 2 not being recognized today. Otherwise it is all I thought it would be and is making me think about shuffling back to Windows again. I've been in a Mac rut for quite a few years now...

 

[skellington]

Well, I disagree that it's ok that there are serious bugs in hardware/software both controlled by MS. I really don't understand how this got by QA since SO many people have reported similar problems. If I wanted to tinker, I would be running linux.

I'm not sure why the tablet form factor is important in schematic creation (unless you mean drawing them by hand). If you're using any standard schematic software, a mouse would be better than touch. If you're drawing ideas with the pen, then yes the SP is nice, but you might like other machines that have 13" screens and digitizers like the thinkpad Yoga or the Sony Duo 11 (?).

The type cover is rigid (it feels a lot like it is, a circuit board wrapped in plastic), but the attachment to the computer is somewhat flexible.

--skell

 

[jnjroach]

No reason for rudeness, isn't this a debate forum?

It started out as an enthusiasts forum, but it is quickly devolving into a Surface Pro/Anti-Microsoft whine fest....

 

[skellington]

Thanks jnjroach aka Microsoft employee....I don't know why you can't be an enthusiast and yet point out the bugs in a product.

After debugging the hibernate crash issue, I've found that it can't be fixed currently and that I have to just disable it. Windows event log shows:
"Windows failed to resume from hibernate with error status 0xC0000411." I have latest drivers on everything.

I also have diagnosed that you can leave "windows can power off this device" on for the wifi adapter IF your power option for Wireless Adapter Settings/Power Saving Mode is NOT set to Maximum Power Savings. Medium Power Savings doesn't crash the SP on sleep/awake.

My hardware is fine, these are definitely software issues. The funny thing is I saw these same problems when playing with the surface in the MS store, but I wrote it off as user error or coincidence. But now that I own one, I see it's just buggy. People who are running the SP mostly plugged-in and who use the default power profiles won't run into these issues. Also, I'm guessing a lot of people won't notice when it crashes on resume because the SP recovers so quickly.

 

[jnjroach]

Thanks jnjroach aka Microsoft employee....I don't know why you can't be an enthusiast and yet point out the bugs in a product.

After debugging the hibernate crash issue, I've found that it can't be fixed currently and that I have to just disable it. Windows event log shows:
"Windows failed to resume from hibernate with error status 0xC0000411." I have latest drivers on everything.

I also have diagnosed that you can leave "windows can power off this device" on for the wifi adapter IF your power option for Wireless Adapter Settings/Power Saving Mode is NOT set to Maximum Power Savings. Medium Power Savings doesn't crash the SP on sleep/awake.

My hardware is fine, these are definitely software issues. The funny thing is I saw these same problems when playing with the surface in the MS store, but I wrote it off as user error or coincidence. But now that I own one, I see it's just buggy. People who are running the SP mostly plugged-in and who use the default power profiles won't run into these issues. Also, I'm guessing a lot of people won't notice when it crashes on resume because the SP recovers so quickly.

Nope - Not a Microsoft Employee never have been. I couldn't be awarded the MVP if I were employed by them. I'm an IT Architect who has use Tablets since 2001...

As far as the Whine Bit...if you looked through the posts you would find a thread that covers 90-95% of what you're writing about, there was no need for a new thread....

 

[kundas1]

^^^exactly, that's what I was saying... thanks jnjroach.

 

[skellington]

So you guys have no problem with the fact that a brand new SP with all updates, a year after it was release, still has major (or at least significant) bugs?

I've found yet another one...the trackpad swiping that brings in the charms bar does not work after a sleep. I have to detach/reattach the cover to get it to work again. Not a huge problem, but another very visible bug.

The thing about other 'bugs' threads is they are scattered and often inconclusive. I'll probably start another thread that lists all current bugs to see if other people are actively suffering from the same problems still and you are free to not read that thread. In fact, you are free to start as many threads as you want praising the perfection of the surface pro.

 

[jnjroach]

I've used computers since the early 80s, programming on both the Apple 2e Enhanced and the TI-99/4A. I've managed everything from an HPe3000 to A/S400. I've worked on OS's from AIX, Linux, OS X and Windows 3.x to present. All have bugs, and updates lead to additional bugs, the broader the platform the more likely bugs will be found. In managing complex IT Projects one rule remains the same, "Not all Bugs are Problems, but all Problems are Bugs..."

I've used tablets since the Gen 1 devices and have owned:

• Toshiba Portege' M200
• Toshiba Portege' M400
• Fujitsu U810
• Lenovo ThinkPad x61T
• Lenovo ThinkPad x200T
• Toshiba Libretto W105
• HP Slate 500
• Samsung Series 7 Slate
• Microsoft Surface RT
• Microsoft Surface 2
• Microsoft Surface Pro 2

All were good machines, all had weaknesses and all had bugs. The most stable of all of the devices are the RT Machines, why because they are closed systems with specific use cases. I've used these things since the beginning and I can tell you even with the bugs, the Surface line of tablets bar none are the best tablets on the market for people who need to be highly mobile and be productive.

Y'all can throw your BMW (B!tch!!! Moan!!! and Whine!!!) all over the internet, but it doesn't change the fact that vast majority of users are having great success with their devices. A community like this one draws out the Trolls, the "I need Help", the "I'm p!ssed and the internet needs to know it", the enthusiast and the helpful. Three of the five types build community the other two are here to dismantle it...

 

[Devolver]

Well, I disagree that it's ok that there are serious bugs in hardware/software both controlled by MS. I really don't understand how this got by QA since SO many people have reported similar problems. If I wanted to tinker, I would be running linux.

I'm not sure why the tablet form factor is important in schematic creation (unless you mean drawing them by hand). If you're using any standard schematic software, a mouse would be better than touch. If you're drawing ideas with the pen, then yes the SP is nice, but you might like other machines that have 13" screens and digitizers like the thinkpad Yoga or the Sony Duo 11 (?).

The type cover is rigid (it feels a lot like it is, a circuit board wrapped in plastic), but the attachment to the computer is somewhat flexible.

--skell

lol you are right although I would consider Linux for OCD tinkerers

Besides drawing by hand, I've seen a clip of the SP2 digitizer pen being used as an alternative mouse interface, if it is accurate enough point and click could be a viable input method when not at a desk.

I am also thinking about the VAIO fita or the duo great specs, great design and great compatibility on both machines, however two things are holding me back. The first is the inevitable bloatware that Sony laptops are notorious for, and the second is the higher price tag. I am tempted to save up for one though.

The Lenovo Yoga did not impress me when using it for a day, really seemed like a flimsy design.

Being that the SP concept was close to the first of its kind, it is likely that the failure rate would be high, not that it is any excuse. Hopefully the SP2 that I am getting will bypass some of the bugs you have run into. Likewise we can only hope that the market share of 2-in-1 computers and convertibles will get bigger, so the format can mature and become better. First generation products are always going to have problems, some major some minor.

It started out as an enthusiasts forum, but it is quickly devolving into a Surface Pro/Anti-Microsoft whine fest....

Where did you get the whine fest from the OP's post, he has consistently stated at the bottom of his posts that he likes the surface pro and is conflicted about even returning it.
I am really surprised at the amount of hostility I have seen here for little reason.

I'd also love to hear your opinion to some of the questions I've posted.

 

[skellington]

I don't expect absolute perfection from any machine, but the SP has major bugs in very prominent features. For example, hibernate does not work! It crashes often enough to not be useful. That is not an esoteric feature, but a major and often used (if it didn't crash) standard feature. It's kind of hard to accept given that MS controls the hardware and the software on this device. The SP will not awaken from sleep if the power settings are set in a particular way. This is a major bug! These are huge bugs in operating features that are used constantly in normal machine operation.

I'm going to post repro steps and solutions for all of the bugs I've found (and researched) so far in another thread. (Why isn't there already a bugs and solutions pinned thread?!) If you (jnjroach) disagree that these are real/reproducible bugs, that would be useful and helpful information. If you're not interested in the bugs and solutions you are free not to read the thread.