Is This Finally the End for the Surface

[jnjroach]

Reports indicate that the pen's pressure sensitivity function with programs such as PS were not working and users had to go to the pen manufacturer for updated drivers. Heat is a problem for higher intensive applications and has been widely reported. Slower performance than the SP2 both with apps and WiFi have also been reported. There are several other issues reported that need not be listed to make this point. This is not a new product, it is version 3. It should not have been released with these issues, especially heat and slower performance. I love my SP2 and was surprised how quickly Microsoft released the SP3. There was no reason it had to be released so quickly. I hope the Surface line survives but I can't see how it will when plagued with so many issues regardless of their cause, software or hardware.

Legacy versions of Photoshop uses a antiquated driver called WINTAB, it was co-created by Adobe and Wacom, there is a WINTAB Driver available for n-Trig pens developed by Adobe and n-Trig, ironically Adobe has abandoned WINTAB in their latest version of the CC and have embraced the Windows Native Ink API.

Plagued is too broad a term... at the end of the day why tear down that we don't understand....

 

[stevenrossvanduyn]

A owner of surface pro 1 and 2 i havent had any problems since owning these computers

 

[be77solo]

WOW... its been out 48 hours and you ringing in the death knells? Let be really clear here, forums are made up of enthusiasts, newbies with issues and trolls...

Now what is interesting Enthusiasts tend to know way to much for the own good when it comes to devices like the Surface Pro 3, they attempt to approach this device as they have every other computer they own - but you can't do that, this is a new type of machine, let me say this again a new type of machine... we have an Intel Core S0iX Compliant Tablet that is as thin as an ATOM or ARM Tablet that runs x64 and is one of the first AC enabled Windows Devices. The issue become enthusiasts tend to want to tweak and apply former enhancements (I'm guilty) without understanding what impact it has on the machine... already we've seen people hacking the registry to disable Connected Standby, using the Command Line to apply other Power Schemes, etc.. I myself lamented the WiFi issue, but it was no where near as bad as I thought....I still get the same speed on the Internet that I got with my SP2 and S2...the Marvell Chipset is newish and many router that work fine with other machines have struggled, my R7000 router needed a Firmware Update, I now longer lose my connection. I feel for those with Orphaned or OSS Routers has updates may be lacking...

Now lets talk about Gamer Enthusiasts - This is a Thin and Light Device - it will never be a awesome gamer rig... it will play games but not like a dedicated Gamer Rig.... its a Core Tablet of course its going to throttle, this is a productivity device and a consumption device. It play all of the WinRT based Games awesomely but bloated Win32 Games that have engines based on code from the 90s not so much.

Newbies who may have bad machines or Config Issues search for help and forums come up first so they post their issues, some are self inflicted like the enthusiasts other have machines that are indeed broken, funny thing, Apple forums are full of people who have issues with their iPads and OSX Machines, they've had machines bricked due to updates, bad drivers and hardware failure its the nature of the beast. Support Forums from any community would convince any sane person that every device is a piece of Cr@p...

There is no reason to try to explain the third group....

Now for my final rant.... this isn't an iPad and this isn't a MacBook Air and Microsoft didn't compare it to the Air or iPad individually but said it can replace both and it can quite well... I've used TabletPCs (real computers in Tablet Form not oversized phones like the iPad and Android world) since 2003 and this is by far the best device I've used, it has successfully replaced my Surface 2 and my Pro 2, it has worked so well my son and wife are upgrading as well....

This is a revolutionary form factor and those that it is designed for love it... sorry your view has become jaded in this short amount of time...

I'll address what I highlighted simply as it's the deal breaker for me.... The SP2 is also exactly what you describe, so why in the heck is the SP3 significantly slower than the SP2 with SERIOUS thermal issues??? They got it right on the SP2, I'm just expecting the same level of performance with the new SP3, yet it is 20-50% slower..... UMM, hello, Microsoft said this was an advance of the line and will replace laptops... yet, it's way slower than the exact laptops it's said to replace (SP2 was comparable to previously laptops already!)

Something ain't right. Microsoft is the definition of one step forwards, two steps back!

And I'm a die hard fan that loves the line, but in no world am I okay with the new model that replaces the old model being SLOWER!

None of this of course takes into account the endless SP2 MicroSD CPU issue we finally had fixed last month or all the new SP3 issues.....

 

[jnjroach]

I'll address what I highlighted simply as it's the deal breaker for me.... The SP2 is also exactly what you describe, so why in the heck is the SP3 significantly slower than the SP2 with SERIOUS thermal issues??? They got it right on the SP2, I'm just expecting the same level of performance with the new SP3, yet it is 20-50% slower..... UMM, hello, Microsoft said this was an advance of the line and will replace laptops... yet, it's way slower than the exact laptops it's said to replace (SP2 was comparable to previously laptops already!)

Something ain't right. Microsoft is the definition of one step forwards, two steps back!

And I'm a die hard fan that loves the line, but in no world am I okay with the new model that replaces the old model being SLOWER!

None of this of course takes into account the endless SP2 MicroSD CPU issue we finally had fixed last month or all the new SP3 issues.....

I'm not a gamer, I don't pretend to be but everything I've thrown at the SP3 is as fast if not faster than the SP2...

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The SP2 was not a Connected Standby Machine, my expectations were inline with the type of machine that it is.... it will never be a Gamer Rig, it will play games but not as well. Every machine has engineering trade-offs - we the Surface Public wanted a Core based machine as thin as a Surface 2, we got it...

 

[be77solo]

The SP2 was not a Connected Standby Machine, my expectations were inline with the type of machine that it is.... it will never be a Gamer Rig, it will play games but not as well. Every machine has engineering trade-offs - we the Surface Public wanted a Core based machine as thin as a Surface 2, we got it...

This is my question!! What the HECK does that mean, does being a "Connected Standby Machine" automatically mean handicapped CPU/GPU performance? I get the basics, ie it has different sleep patterns, but why does that cripple it for serious usage that both the SP1 and SP2 were capable of? Call it what you want, gaming, designing, creation, etc, but bottom line is the SP3 is SIGNIFICANTLY slower when pushed than the SP2 is. It's easy to say gaming is the issue, it's not a gaming machine, so get lost; but it will also affect anything that pushes either the CPU or GPU, or heaven forbid both. I dare say many professionals will expect actual performance that the SP3 is simply not currently providing.

Is there hope with firmware updates? Or is slower performance the tradeoff for this "connected standby" crap?

 

[jnjroach]

Yes, they can adjust the machine anyway they want, currently it is tuned for maximum battery life and mobility... taxing the machine differs by the program, we know that it can currently handling 3D Modeling and Rendering and it can handle Adobe Creative Cloud (these are the latest versions). The SP1 and SP2 tended towards backwards compatibility with legacy applications...

All the Applications shown take advantage of the new hardware and software, legacy applications using legacy code and API Calls apparently don't perform to the level of expectation that is a given. Battery Life and Raw Power are mutually exclusive (even under the fabled next version of Intel's Chipset). Will MS release the ability to tune this into a non-S0iX Machine? Its possible, as long as doing so won't damage the internals, it is also possible that they will keep it designed for the new software that has been created to take advantage of the modern platform (these are the first major upgrades to Win32 code from 3rd Party ISVs in a decade which is very exciting).

One of the issues is people are expecting Desktop Replacement Laptop Performance not Ultrabook Replacement Performance... The new thin and light gaming laptops from Razor and Gigabyte get 3-4 hours of battery life under normal conditions and 1 or 2 in gaming, it is the nature of the beast.

 

[geckoking]

This is my question!! What the HECK does that mean, does being a "Connected Standby Machine" automatically mean handicapped CPU/GPU performance? I get the basics, ie it has different sleep patterns, but why does that cripple it for serious usage that both the SP1 and SP2 were capable of? Call it what you want, gaming, designing, creation, etc, but bottom line is the SP3 is SIGNIFICANTLY slower when pushed than the SP2 is. It's easy to say gaming is the issue, it's not a gaming machine, so get lost; but it will also affect anything that pushes either the CPU or GPU, or heaven forbid both. I dare say many professionals will expect actual performance that the SP3 is simply not currently providing.

Is there hope with firmware updates? Or is slower performance the tradeoff for this "connected standby" crap?

I totally agree.. I'm getting a bit frustrated with the performance and especially the wifi being so slow on battery. Overall the surface is slow at times and studder. I'm coming from the original surface pro and it seems that I am taking a performance downgrade and a upgrade in screen only. I paid over a 1K for this and it might go back!! Microsoft needs to fix this or else it's going back.

 

[grumpy]

one of the issues is people are expecting...

sp1<sp2<sp3

 

[tuchas]

Sorry, but there are other issues that I have been having, before and after the upgrade. One of the problems with the earlier Surface Pros was with the type covers. For example, you use the type cover to type something up, you then remove it, go to another room, and when you try typing in a modern app, the keyboard doesn't automatically come up - like it should. Sometimes its the other way around - you are using the thing in tablet mode, you attach the type cover, and the keys on the type cover do not work unless you do a reboot. This was fixed with a later update.

Now comes the SP3, and I am experiencing the EXACT SAME issues. I just came from my living room after watching a movie on the device and opened OneNote to attach a screen shot of something. I then went to my office, clicked in the keyboard and most of the keys are NOT WORKING. Frankly this is complete BS. Along with dropping my wifi even AFTER the firmware update, I am getting very frustrated.

 

[be77solo]

One of the issues is people are expecting Desktop Replacement Laptop Performance not Ultrabook Replacement Performance... The new thin and light gaming laptops from Razor and Gigabyte get 3-4 hours of battery life under normal conditions and 1 or 2 in gaming, it is the nature of the beast.

Jnjroach, I always try to give you the benefit of the doubt, but you are 100% wrong here.... the SP3 is SLOWER than a typical Ultrabook, SLOWER than it's APPLE competitor, and SLOWER than the SP2! I know you drink the Microsoft Kool-Aid, and I love the Surface line, but the SP3 has SERIOUS performance problems, even if YOU don't run into them!

 

[jnjroach]

Jnjroach, I always try to give you the benefit of the doubt, but you are 100% wrong here.... the SP3 is SLOWER than a typical Ultrabook, SLOWER than it's APPLE competitor, and SLOWER than the SP2! I know you drink the Microsoft Kool-Aid, and I love the Surface line, but the SP3 has SERIOUS performance problems, even if YOU don't run into them!

I agreed with you, there are conditional performance issues that are impacting the Surface Pro 3 and I acknowledge that they are frustrating to the users who are impacted by them, When MS screws up I'm on them... I support and have owned many Ultrabook and Tablets and I'm not seeing the performance issue, it has nothing to do with Cult behavior....

I'm privileged, I recognize this as I don't have the burden to run any legacy software, JAVA is non-existent in my life, I've moved my entire practice to Cloud Based Services and I live in the Microsoft Eco-system, I loathe all that is Google and will not use their product stack so none of their shenanigans impact, I don't use I-Tunes so I'm not impacted by their less then adequate code base,

I run a very clean machine, outside of Office Professional Plus 2013 the only other Win32 Code I run is Cloudberry Labs Azure Storage Browser and 7zip.

 

[bradhaak]

As previously noted, the SP3 has a larger display, is thinner and lighter with similar or better battery life compared to the SP2. It also uses the same processor as the SP2. Anybody that expected it to have equal or faster performance compared to the SP2 was not paying attention.

It was not billed as a replacement for your desktop system and it wasn't billed as a heavy-duty game system. It wasn't even billed as being faster than an SP2 because it can't be faster without killing the battery life and even then it would be doubtful because of the extra pixels being pushed to the screen.

As noted previously in this thread, it was billed as a replacement for a Macbook Air (and by extension, other equivalent Ultrabooks). It wasn't even billed as a replacement for larger laptops like the Macbook Pro.

It does fulfill the claims that were made and implied. Some people may have teething issues, but this is normal and will be worked out just like they were with previous models. But don't condemn the product because of false assumptions that were never stated.